Overstock duplicate order refund

ktp111

Would it be a bad approach then to refuse delivery of two of the three chairs and then request an s75 dispute of the charges for those two from my credit card company? It seems easier than returning myself? Is the s75 unlikely to be allowed in this case? If I went that route I'd only have a chance to look for a paper notice of return costs in the unreturned parcel. I've never had to dispute a charge before and have no idea how it works or when it's allowed.

powerful_Rogue

ktp111 said:

Would it be a bad approach then to refuse delivery of two of the three chairs and then request an s75 dispute of the charges for those two from my credit card company? It seems easier than returning myself? Is the s75 unlikely to be allowed in this case? If I went that route I'd only have a chance to look for a paper notice of return costs in the unreturned parcel. I've never had to dispute a charge before and have no idea how it works or when it's allowed.

Can't imagine a s75 will be valid for refusing a delivery.

ktp111

I guess I was wondering if s75 applies to duplicate transactions and whether that would be applicable here

ktp111

And as a follow up, if s75 doesn't apply, then what would be my remedy if there's no written notice regarding the return in the parcels? Would I have to pursue it in court if overstock refuses to refund shipping costs?

born_again

ktp111 said:

I guess I was wondering if s75 applies to duplicate transactions and whether that would be applicable here

S75 does not cover this. Even a chargeback would not as the orders were placed.
Real PIA when stuff like this happens.

ktp111

Thanks, yes it really is a PIA. I'm a solo mother who always pays off credit card every month and this is going to put me into credit card debt. Definitely the last time I buy online from an international seller.

Ergates

ktp111 said:

And as a follow up, if s75 doesn't apply, then what would be my remedy if there's no written notice regarding the return in the parcels? Would I have to pursue it in court if overstock refuses to refund shipping costs?

Essentially yes - you need to be prepared to do so.

Contact them in writing (email is fine), reminding them of what the legislation says and asking them to arrange someone to pick up the other 2 chairs (at their expense).   If they don't then write them a letter before action - (basically threatening them with legal action) and if they still do nothing carry through with your threat.

I can see why they wouldn't want to pay up tbh - they'll see it as your error, and depending on how their order processing works it may well have been too late to stop the dispatch when you contacted them.   However, fortunately for you, the English law (which they insist is the relevant one) is pretty brutal on businesses in this regard.  If they don't fulfil their obligation about informing customers of their rights then they bear all the costs.  (another thing is that if they've not informed you of your rights correctly, you get 12 months, rather than 14 days, to return the goods).

There are 2 morals to this story.
1)  If you're buying something off a website and it crashes at the point you submit the order - don't try again, drop them an email
2) If you're running an online business, make *very* sure you're fulfilling your obligations.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

OP let's assume English law applies, then you have the right to cancel from when the contract was entered until 14 days after delivery.

The trader is responsible for delivery and risk only passes when the goods come into your physical possession. 

The consumer must bear the cost of return but for this to apply the trader must state so via durable means

If the goods can't be returned by normal post they should advise of the cost of return via durable means, if they don't they must bear the costs. 

S75 places the same liability upon the card provider so say you accepted delivery, returned the goods and the trader didn't cover the costs I don't see any reason you can't issue small claims proceedings against the card provider for that expense (you should go through the card provider's process first and use small claims as a last resort).

With refusing delivery it's a question of whether the goods have come into your physical possession, personally I don't think they have but it's possibly a point that will end up in a 14 page debate on the subject. 

If you have S75 cover the bank should cover the cost of return so it would probably be better to accept deliver, return the goods and argue with the bank. 

OP when returning you should return as per:

(3) The address to which goods must be sent under paragraph (2)(a) is—

(a)any address specified by the trader for sending the goods back;

(b)if no address is specified for that purpose, any address specified by the trader for the consumer to contact the trader;

(c)if no address is specified for either of those purposes, any place of business of the trader.

Durable information is typically that personalised to yourself which can't be edited so typically email or on paper, website text doesn't count but worth a note something like a PDF that can be downloaded from your account with the trader would probably be durable. 

unholyangel

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

OP let's assume English law applies, then you have the right to cancel from when the contract was entered until 14 days after delivery.

The trader is responsible for delivery and risk only passes when the goods come into your physical possession. 

The consumer must bear the cost of return but for this to apply the trader must state so via durable means

If the goods can't be returned by normal post they should advise of the cost of return via durable means, if they don't they must bear the costs. 

S75 places the same liability upon the card provider so say you accepted delivery, returned the goods and the trader didn't cover the costs I don't see any reason you can't issue small claims proceedings against the card provider for that expense (you should go through the card provider's process first and use small claims as a last resort).

With refusing delivery it's a question of whether the goods have come into your physical possession, personally I don't think they have but it's possibly a point that will end up in a 14 page debate on the subject. 

If you have S75 cover the bank should cover the cost of return so it would probably be better to accept deliver, return the goods and argue with the bank. 

OP when returning you should return as per:

(3) The address to which goods must be sent under paragraph (2)(a) is—

(a)any address specified by the trader for sending the goods back;

(b)if no address is specified for that purpose, any address specified by the trader for the consumer to contact the trader;

(c)if no address is specified for either of those purposes, any place of business of the trader.

Durable information is typically that personalised to yourself which can't be edited so typically email or on paper, website text doesn't count but worth a note something like a PDF that can be downloaded from your account with the trader would probably be durable. 

Only bit I'd add is that the information must be received by the consumer with no positive action on their part. So having to download a pdf is unlikely to satisfy the trader's obligation. 

Courts have drawn distinction between "provide" and "make available". Pdf would be the information being made available, rather than being provided. 

ETA: actually I do have more I meant to add, just as general points rather than in response to lunatic.

When was the contract formed? 
And remember that the information must be provided "before the consumer is bound by the distance contract". 

JetpackVelociraptor

There seems to be clear distinction made between a link to a PDF on a website versus a PDF that's downloadable from the customers' account on said website. If it's a link to a page on the website, it's not regarded as durable means because that can be edited after the fact. If it's a PDF that is downloadable from the customers' account section of the website, i.e. they have to log in in order to download the file, and said files remain on the site for a reasonable period of time, then it is regarded as durable. At least according to this guidance published in 2013 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/429300/bis-13-1368-consumer-contracts-information-cancellation-and-additional-payments-regulations-guidance.pdf

That's provided for retailers so I would hope that it's accurate!

I'm fairly sure that providing the information only as a paper copy inside the packaging would not count. The customer hasn't been informed of their rights at the point at which they're trying to cancel, because they're trying to cancel before receipt of the goods and won't have full details of the contract until they've received them.