Overstock duplicate order refund

ktp111

The short version is that I placed a triplicate order on Overstock for an item that costs £500 with shipping and duty because their website was playing up and they refused to stop the second and third shipments and are now telling me I'll have to pay the original and return shipping. I'm now wondering whether to refuse delivery, dispute with my credit card, file a complaint somewhere, or what?

The long version is this: On Monday I tried to buy a £500 office chair on overstock.com via international shipping and the website kept freezing up and told me that the purchase didn't go through, so I tried twice more and it didn't work, so I gave up. I didn't get any confirmation email, the charge didn't appear on my credit card, and the purchase didn't appear on the my orders section of my online overstock account, so I thought it hadn't gone through. Then on Wednesday morning I got an email that a chair had been shipped and I go online and see two more chairs are in their warehouse being prepared for shipping. I called them as soon as they opened (they're on US time) and asked them to please cancel the two chairs that hadn't yet shipped and they told me too late, you'll have to pay out of pocket to ship them back. I asked for a manager and he told me that although I'd called the international order number, it's actually a separate department over which he has no control and he'd have to send my concerns to them and they'd get back to me within two working days. They've now gotten back to me with a chipper email saying that it was too late to stop the shipment and I should feel free to return them according to their policies (which I take it would mean I would not be refunded the original shipping and would have to pay out of my pocket to return ship, making for about a £500 loss for me). Any advice on whether I can dispute the transaction with my credit card company, file a complaint with the US Better Business Bureua, refuse delivery, and/or something else?

Ergates

You'd have no cause to dispute it with your credit card company - you did place the order and they have (or rather, presumably will) deliver the items you ordered.

As it's a US company you're not covered by UK consumer rights law - I have no idea what the US laws would say in this matter and I doubt anyone else on here does.

Balance what it would cost to send the chairs back with what you could get for selling them on.

powerful_Rogue

Luckily for you.......

Applicable Law
If you access the Site from anywhere other than the United States or Canada, you agree that English law will govern these Terms and the purchase of products by you through the Site, and that any dispute of any sort that might arise between you and Overstock or its affiliates and subsidiaries shall be subject to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of England and Wales. https://help.overstock.com/help/s/article/TERMS-AND-CONDITIONS

ktp111

That's excellent news re: their policy that English law applies! So with the distance selling regulations I should be entitled to a refund with no liability on my part for shipping or whatever? How do I pursue that, though? Can I take that to my credit card company? Should I refuse delivery and then take it to the credit card company? Or do I have to pursue it in court?

Ergates

Still not necessarily though.

The retailer would be responsible for paying to have the chairs returned if they were faulty or not as described etc.   But that isn't the case here.

If you're just returning them because you don't want the items any more, you're entitled to a refund (which they're not denying you) *but* the retailer *can* say that you're responsible for postage.  They need to tell you this up front (i.e. in their terms and conditions) and this needs to be supplied to you either by email or on a piece of paper included with the items.

Return of goods in the event of cancellation

35.—(1) Where a sales contract is cancelled under regulation 29(1), it is the trader’s responsibility to collect the goods if—

(a)the trader has offered to collect them, or

(b)in the case of an off-premises contract, the goods were delivered to the consumer’s home when the contract was entered into and could not, by their nature, normally be returned by post.

(2) If it is not the trader’s responsibility under paragraph (1) to collect the goods, the consumer must—

(a)send them back, or

(b)hand them over to the trader or to a person authorised by the trader to receive them.

(3) The address to which goods must be sent under paragraph (2)(a) is—

(a)any address specified by the trader for sending the goods back;

(b)if no address is specified for that purpose, any address specified by the trader for the consumer to contact the trader;

(c)if no address is specified for either of those purposes, any place of business of the trader.

(4) The consumer must send off the goods under paragraph (2)(a), or hand them over under paragraph (2)(b), without undue delay and in any event not later than 14 days after the day on which the consumer informs the trader as required by regulation 32(2).

(5) The consumer must bear the direct cost of returning goods under paragraph (2), unless—

(a)the trader has agreed to bear those costs, or

(b)the trader failed to provide the consumer with the information about the consumer bearing those costs, required by paragraph (m) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.

(6) The contract is to be treated as including a term that the trader must bear the direct cost of the consumer returning goods under paragraph (2) where paragraph (5)(b) applies.

(7) The consumer is not required to bear any other cost of returning goods under paragraph (2).

(8) The consumer is not required to bear any cost of collecting goods under paragraph (1) unless the consumer agreed to bear them.

I *think* that having a clause in the T&C (that you would have agreed to) that says you'll bear the cost of returning the items would cover them for clause 8 (others might disagree) - but if it doesn't state that then they have to bear the cost (and get their website updated pronto!)

If that is the case then the first step would be to get back in touch with them telling them this and quoting the relevant part of the legislation (consumer contracts regulations 2013, regulation 35)



You'd still have no recourse to claim via your credit card company - as none of the conditions under which you'd claim have been met.

Manxman_in_exile

I'm not sure if @Ergates meant to put s35(1)(b) in bold as I don't think this is an "off-premises" contract according to the definition in s5?  But it is a "distance sale".

The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk)

Assuming that English law does apply - and that the OP has cancelled the contract under s29 -  then I would have thought the situation was covered by s35(5)(a) and (b).

(5) The consumer must bear the direct cost of returning goods under paragraph (2), unless—

(a) the trader has agreed to bear those costs, or

(b) the trader failed to provide the consumer with the information about the consumer bearing those costs, required by paragraph (m) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.

(a) doesn't appear to apply, so the OP has to bear the cost of returning the goods unless (b) applies.

For (b) to apply the trader must have failed to tell the OP:

(m) where applicable, that the consumer will have to bear the cost of returning the goods in case of cancellation and, for distance contracts, if the goods, by their nature, cannot normally be returned by post, the cost of returning the goods

I may very well be mistaken, but if the chairs cannot normally be returned by post, then unless the trader has informed the OP of the cost of returning the goods (whatever that might mean exactly) then the trader has to bear that cost.

But the fact that English law might require the return cost to be paid by the retailer might not be of much practical help to the OP if he needs to return the two office chairs to the US and has to pay for that initially.  If the trader doesn't want to play ball, I'm not sure how the OP would enforce the law against a US trader?

If paid by credit card, a s75 claim might be possible in respect of the return costs if the trader should be responsible for paying them, but doesn't do so.  Overseas purchases are covered by s75.

But as I said, I might be mistaken...

Ergates

Perhaps you're right - in most other clauses off-premises and distance contracts are treated the same, so I was thinking the same would be the case here (though, it doesn't actually say distance and this is legislation so is very precise).

Same principle though - if the retailer didn't specifically and correctly tell the OP they'd be responsible for postage for returns *up front* then the retailer is responsible.

ktp111

Thanks for all your help. It appears then that even under English law re long distance trading I'm liable for return shipping, as I'm sure that their terms and conditions say so. Am I also liable for the original shipping costs and import duty?

Do I have no leverage from the fact that their website was telling me that the order had failed and they provided no email confirmation or receipt? There isn't even a receipt available on my online account, it tells me to refer to the confirmation email they never sent. I certainly didn't intend to place the order three times, and I notified them with all possible speed once they belatedly informed me (by way of the shipping notice) that they had received the order. Their system seems to be set up to prevent consumers from cancelling mistaken orders (their UK trustpilot site is filled with complaints similar to mine), though I realize that it's impossible for consumers such as myself to prove that without lots of screenshots. 

Ergates

ktp111 said:

Thanks for all your help. It appears then that even under English law re long distance trading I'm liable for return shipping, as I'm sure that their terms and conditions say so. Am I also liable for the original shipping costs and import duty?

Do I have no leverage from the fact that their website was telling me that the order had failed and they provided no email confirmation or receipt? There isn't even a receipt available on my online account, it tells me to refer to the confirmation email they never sent. I certainly didn't intend to place the order three times, and I notified them with all possible speed once they belatedly informed me (by way of the shipping notice) that they had received the order. Their system seems to be set up to prevent consumers from cancelling mistaken orders (their UK trustpilot site is filled with complaints similar to mine), though I realize that it's impossible for consumers such as myself to prove that without lots of screenshots. 

Double check - it's a lot of money so don't just assume.   Remember, they have to have send you that information in a "durable" format (email or paper) for it to count - just having it on their website isn't sufficient.

If they were inclined to be helpful, then a broken website might persuade them, but as it doesn't sound like they are and as you probably can't prove it was faulty then I don't think that could provide much leverage.

ktp111

I didn't catch the part about durable format, in that case they definitely didn't give the information. They didn't even send a receipt or confirmation email. Do they have to provide that information at time of sale?

Ergates

Not necessarily - if it's provided in a physical format (i.e. a piece of paper) then that can be included with the goods themselves - so you can't be sure you're not going to get it until the chairs arrive.

By which I mean - they should provide the info at time of dispatch - but you might not get it until some time later (when the goods arrive).