Advice re Royal Mail stamp swapout

Gemmai

Last year Royal Mail announced that they would no longer be selling the '1st class signed for' and 'special delivery' stamps. 

I use the 1st class large letter service for many of my packages (which are also under 100g), and knowing that prices would be going up, I purchased all of the '1st class large letter signed for' stamps that my post office left in stock. About 200 of them altogether, which for my business is probably about 2 years supply, but I figured as (at that time) they were valid forever it would be a good investment as they would still be valid even if the prices increased. 

Anyway, long story short.  Royal Mail announced recently that they are withdrawing all definitive stamps from use, including the 1st class signed for large letter stamps that I still have around 150 of!!

They will not swap these 'like for like' for barcoded stamps, as they are not producing them.   Their solution is to calculate the current value of my stamps and 'swap out' for the equivalent value in standard 2nd class stamps. 

Obviously I'm not happy about this, I rarely use the 2nd class service. Their argument is that I can still used 2nd class stamps as full or part payment towards the 1st class signed for service that I use.    My argument against this is 2 fold...
1.  The value of multiple 2nd class stamps is unlikely to add up to the exact amount I need, I will therefore end up either overpaying postage, or be forced to buy more stamps to make up the extra. 
2. 2nd class stamps rarely (if ever) increase in value at the same rate as 1st class services. Therefore in the long term, as the price of 1st class signed for increases more than the cost of standard 2nd class, I will eventually lose out. 

Any thoughts on where I stand with this, given that when I bought the stamps I was told that they would be valid forever? 

molerat

I very much doubt RM has ever said that their stamps would last forever so bulk buying has always been at the risk of a particular  stamp / service being withdrawn especially outside of the core 1st / 2nd.

Point 2 is a non starter as an argument.

Gemmai

molerat said:

I very much doubt RM has ever said that their stamps would last forever so bulk buying has always been at the risk of a particular  stamp / service being withdrawn especially outside of the core 1st / 2nd.

Point 2 is a non starter as an argument.

 This MSE blog post goes back to 2012, but the statement from Royal Mail certainly suggests to me that NVI stamps are valid forever.  That's what I take this statement to suggest anyway..
"Stamps without a specified monetary value are described as Non Value Indicator (NVI) and are typically first and second class stamps. These do not have an expiry date, therefore can be used regardless of the length of time you’ve had them."

https://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2012/03/why-stamps-that-say-1st-stay-valid-in-perpetuity-so-hoard-em/

They certainly haven't given many years of notice.  Royal mail pulled these '1st class signed for' stamps from sale in around October 2021, and then announced that they wouldn't be valid after January 2023, only a couple of months later.  At the time I bought them, I was lead to believe that they would not expire and buying a couple of years supply seemed a sensible thing to do.

martindow

There is a lonfg thread on the Ebay board regarding this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6331387/royal-mail-barcoding-stamps-existing-stamps-valid-only-until-31-jan-2023

The early posts are largely conjecture, but there are a lot of more recent posts with information on how it works.

Gemmai

martindow said:

There is a lonfg thread on the Ebay board regarding this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6331387/royal-mail-barcoding-stamps-existing-stamps-valid-only-until-31-jan-2023

The early posts are largely conjecture, but there are a lot of more recent posts with information on how it works.

Thanks, I did look at that thread but the discussion seems to be all around the standard 1st and 2nd class stamps.  I am looking specifically for advice regarding the 'signed for' and 'special delivery' stamps that Royal mail no longer sell and therefore cannot swap out 'like for like'.

I don't have a problem with swapping out stamps, I have a problem that they are saying that the ones I get back will not be valid for the same service without me either buying additional stamps or overpaying using the ones they give me. 
If they were withdrawing the service altogether, I could understand that but they aren't. 

Codger1947

Freepost Swap Out: No compensation for stamps lost or stolen

It is obvious to me that envelopes containing up to £200 of stamps addressed to "Freepost SWAP OUT" would be targeted by thieves en route.

The Royal Mail has now indicated that would be no compensation for stamps to be swapped out sent to the Freepost address.  This clarification appears to have been included in their revised Terms and Conditions.

So in other words the swap out scheme is not FREE!

=======================================================

Copy of correspondence below (my details redacted):

Enquiry from me to Royal Mail on April 2nd:

You advise sending old stamps to be swapped for bar coded versions to "FREEPOST SWAP OUT". Will you compensate customers when stamps are stolen en route?

Royal Mail's reply of April 7th:

Thank you for contacting us.   I was sorry to hear of your concerns regarding our swap out scheme.   If your stamps are high in value, we recommend sending your non-barcoded stamps back to us via a secure service with suitable cover. The address to send to is:
Royal Mail
Swap Out
Tallents House
21 South Gyle Crescent
EDINBURGH
EH12 9PB  
For more information on our barcoded stamps please visit https://www.royalmail.com/sending/barcoded-stamps.   For any important, time sensitive and/ or valuable items I recommend our Special Delivery Guaranteed® service, which allows you to fully track your item as it travels through our network and on to delivery. More information can be found at www.royalmail.com/specialdelivery.   I’m sorry you’ve had to contact us and I hope you find this information useful in resolving your enquiry. If you still need help, please visit our Help and Support Centre at www.royalmail.com/help.  
Regards
Emma Drew

=================================================

jon81uk

Codger1947 said:

Freepost Swap Out: No compensation for stamps lost or stolen

It is obvious to me that envelopes containing up to £200 of stamps addressed to "Freepost SWAP OUT" would be targeted by thieves en route.

The Royal Mail has now indicated that would be no compensation for stamps to be swapped out sent to the Freepost address.  This clarification appears to have been included in their revised Terms and Conditions.

So in other words the swap out scheme is not FREE!

=======================================================

Copy of correspondence below (my details redacted):

Enquiry from me to Royal Mail on April 2nd:

You advise sending old stamps to be swapped for bar coded versions to "FREEPOST SWAP OUT". Will you compensate customers when stamps are stolen en route?

Royal Mail's reply of April 7th:

Thank you for contacting us.   I was sorry to hear of your concerns regarding our swap out scheme.   If your stamps are high in value, we recommend sending your non-barcoded stamps back to us via a secure service with suitable cover. The address to send to is:
Royal Mail
Swap Out
Tallents House
21 South Gyle Crescent
EDINBURGH
EH12 9PB  
For more information on our barcoded stamps please visit https://www.royalmail.com/sending/barcoded-stamps.   For any important, time sensitive and/ or valuable items I recommend our Special Delivery Guaranteed® service, which allows you to fully track your item as it travels through our network and on to delivery. More information can be found at www.royalmail.com/specialdelivery.   I’m sorry you’ve had to contact us and I hope you find this information useful in resolving your enquiry. If you still need help, please visit our Help and Support Centre at www.royalmail.com/help.  
Regards
Emma Drew

=================================================

If over £200 and sent to the address given they will reimburse the special delivery postage (as more stamps).

" Postage costs will be refunded, if sent by Special Delivery GuaranteedTM, by sending you the equivalent value in barcoded stamps added to your swap."
Stamp Swap Out form (over £200 pounds) (royalmail.com)

Codger1947

jon81uk said:

If over £200 and sent to the address given they will reimburse the special delivery postage (as more stamps).

" Postage costs will be refunded, if sent by Special Delivery GuaranteedTM, by sending you the equivalent value in barcoded stamps added to your swap."
Stamp Swap Out form (over £200 pounds) (royalmail.com)

My point is that RM has imposed this deadline for using old stamps, but its so-called free swap scheme isn't really free for us, their customers, at all.  Either we have to pay for special delivery, or use Freepost with the considerable risk of bearing the loss in the likely event of them being stolen en route.  The RM should be obliged to enable people to exchange old stamps for the hideous new ones over the counter, e.g. at a Post Office.

MACKEM99

I agree that they should swop them at the PO.  However one way would be to send them in batches with a lower value?

StartledJesus

***WARNING TO MSEers re Stamp Swap Out***

@Codger1947 This is EXACTLY what I have already experienced, and the scheme only started last Monday, 4th April.

On Monday I posted my form, and 24 Self Adhesive 1st class stamps, still stuck to a single strip of paper, to the Freepost address. At that point I had not seen your post, but I did have certain qualms, but dismissed them with the thought that I have placed the envelope directly into the Royal Mail system which, of course, I trust implicitly. Valued at the current price of 95p, that gave a total of £22.80.

This morning, Saturday, I received a letter from Royal Mail. This must be my replacement stamps, I thought, how very efficient and impressive. 

How naive was I? What the envelope actually contained was a letter from Royal Mail, informing me that they had received my claim form, but no stamps. Therefore, just to rub it in, they kindly informed me that they would be sending me 0 stamps with a value of £0.00. They even sent me a dispatch note!!

Now I am 110% certain that I included the stamps. I even didn’t include another 2 stamps because they were loose. So patently the stamps have been purloined by someone in transit, and RM have just ended up with the form. They definitely have the form, because otherwise they would not have known my name and address to write to me, and the value of the missing stamps.

The implication is that they think that I have not put the stamps into the envelope, or that I am ‘trying it on’ for the sake of £22.80. Interestingly, their letter was addressed from Sunderland, but the return address on the envelope was Edinburgh.

FURIOUS does not cover it. Unfortunately, I have not been able to do anything about it because the unit dealing with it only works Monday to Friday, and probably from home. I did make a call to RM General customer services, but gave up after 20 minutes on hold. 

Rest assured that I will be straight into their ribs at 8.30am on Monday morning.

@Codger1947 Who/where did you contact with your enquiry (that was answered by 'Emma Drew') ? 

StartledJesus

Anyone any idea how to contact the MSE moderators to request that a general warning to all MSEers is issued about this?