Ok so we want to appeal this

Fruitcake

ANPR pole mounted cameras need planning permission which can be retrospectively approved.

Signs need advertising consent. It cannot be approved retrospectively. Not having it is a breach of the PoFA para 12. It is also a criminal offence, although only the council can pursue it.

Include all of the above in your PoPLA appeal, and the fact that the council planning department are investigating this, including the potential crime.

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Fruitcake said:

ANPR pole mounted cameras need planning permission which can be retrospectively approved.

Signs need advertising consent. It cannot be approved retrospectively. Not having it is a breach of the PoFA para 12. It is also a criminal offence, although only the council can pursue it.

Include all of the above in your PoPLA appeal, and the fact that the council planning department are investigating this, including the potential crime.

Thanks fruitcake we had planned to use this , just hoped we had the time to put solid stuff into place re the council , I wrote to my MP and pointed out that even whilst we were there taking pictures a number of people and business owners had come to talk to us about how this was negatively affecting their businesses and how their customers had been ticketed and that without the planning permission they had made a mockery of planning law hence he put us in touch with the head of planning to deal with

I had already known about the ANPR camera legality and the Signage im sure they try and shave as much paperwork to start creaming those punters until one finds out the legality and the signage was a point I had hoped by the time I was submitting to POPLA would have a concrete answer from the council as to its legality , I understand it would be the council who are incumbent to sue and if this were the case I’d have been happy to go all the way to court , I assume presenting a judge with the fact that a parking operator is being sued for illegal signage would pretty much make contracts null void and have a mock on for anyone else who had paid up.

I also note in the dark area of the car park there are no poles or signs at all and unfortunately this is where our party parked

from what I read these signs would need to be lit they have no lighting again due to the requirement for planning permission which would require a planning application and obviously there isn’t one

I am pretty sure in the !!!!!! rain and the dark which is how the weather was on the night no one would see them if they were lit pink neon 

I had read in other posts not to use Planning as a defence? And as such fear time is not on our side now I figured I’d at least have 3 weeks to put a polished effort in

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Fruitcake said:

PoPLA codes last for 32 days.

Awesome thanks 

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I had another thought also 

this car park only Opened up again in jan 2022 after the new parking LAWS were introduced I may have alluded earlier in my curiosity in another post about new law implementation

would it be correct to say the car parking company has basically known about the new law and instead of applying them reverted to the old shady tricks methods on a refurbished car park that opened after the new laws were introduced 

Seems  odd to me that they’re in receipt of the full new statute and then slap up some signs trying to eek a bit more money from people before the time limit is up on the old laws (obviously I don’t find it odd) 

Fruitcake

We advise posters not to pin their hopes on planning permission/advertising consent to win, especially PoPLA which is funded by the PPCs, but I am a great believer that it should be included.

As for the PPC up to their old tricks, at a seminar earlier this year, the BPA told all it's members that they should start to implement the new CoP requirements with immediate effect.

Coupon-mad

The new Code of Practice was published in February but is not implemented yet.

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Hi couponmad and fruitcake 

everywhere I am reading says this has got royal ascent this would make the new govt standard actual law ? 

could you argue that wether the PPC has not implemented it yet is their own mistake.

Or would be unwise to use the new law I think I have all the signage errors covered 

was just wondering not being argumentative I understand the signage car park and appeal points just not how a car park that has been recomissioned woul not fall under the new rules as it post dates them

it would seem they have disregarded what they already know and carried on regardless to make money ( and you can see why from their side ) 

Im looking for an angle I suppose if there is one legally if there isn’t one , there isnt one

Umkomaas

The new Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019 only comes into full effect when all component parts are in place. 

Some big items yet to be fully developed - the independent appeals service, the overseeing standards body, and the massive logistical job of replacing hundreds of thousands of signs across the whole country. Most ANPR-based PPCs won't carry many sign erectors, so this will be a massive job for them. Expect to see masking tape and felt tip alterations. That will be fun!

Estimated completion 'end of 2023'.

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Umkomaas said:

The new Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019 only comes into full effect when all component parts are in place. 

Some big items yet to be fully developed - the independent appeals service, the overseeing standards body, and the massive logistical job of replacing hundreds of thousands of signs across the whole country. Most ANPR-based PPCs won't carry many sign erectors, so this will be a massive job for them. Expect to see masking tape and felt tip alterations. That will be fun!

Estimated completion 'end of 2023'.

I might get into the sign erecting business rapidly :-)

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Ok for now then thanks folks I will knock up a PDF with all the relevant  stuff i we also have a few videos showing that it’s basically impossible to even see the signs without taking your eyes off the road in fact we have one showing you can’t even see the sign stood still how do I include these in the evidence