Which car is your opinion is flashier/classier?

NBLondon

I'm not saying they aren't popular and aren't the best sellers.  I'm wondering what's the split between people who actively want an SUV style; those who get one because there are more around and possibly those who want something else but it doesn't exist in their price/age range.   Is it supply or demand led?  Is it fashion driven?

I mentioned the Mondeo above.  I used to have a Mk III Mondeo in the 5 door hatch body which was great for what I needed.  A while back I was considering getting a newer Mondeo but I found that the combination I wanted didn't exist viz. 5 door hatch body, petrol or hybrid, manual, luxury spec.  Even accepting automatic and diesel as an option - the higher spec ones only came as saloon or estate.  Then pandemic changed the plans altogether...

motorguy

NBLondon said:

I'm not saying they aren't popular and aren't the best sellers.  I'm wondering what's the split between people who actively want an SUV style; those who get one because there are more around and possibly those who want something else but it doesn't exist in their price/age range.   Is it supply or demand led?  Is it fashion driven?

I mentioned the Mondeo above.  I used to have a Mk III Mondeo in the 5 door hatch body which was great for what I needed.  A while back I was considering getting a newer Mondeo but I found that the combination I wanted didn't exist viz. 5 door hatch body, petrol or hybrid, manual, luxury spec.  Even accepting automatic and diesel as an option - the higher spec ones only came as saloon or estate.  Then pandemic changed the plans altogether...

More space, better visibility and easier to load kids / luggage / groceries in to because its higher.

Its easy to see why they're popular.

Most of the big sellers are based on hatchbacks anyway, so you dont have the big running costs of a big SUV.

iwb100

NBLondon said:

I'm not saying they aren't popular and aren't the best sellers.  I'm wondering what's the split between people who actively want an SUV style; those who get one because there are more around and possibly those who want something else but it doesn't exist in their price/age range.   Is it supply or demand led?  Is it fashion driven?

I mentioned the Mondeo above.  I used to have a Mk III Mondeo in the 5 door hatch body which was great for what I needed.  A while back I was considering getting a newer Mondeo but I found that the combination I wanted didn't exist viz. 5 door hatch body, petrol or hybrid, manual, luxury spec.  Even accepting automatic and diesel as an option - the higher spec ones only came as saloon or estate.  Then pandemic changed the plans altogether...

But the reason more and more SUVs started to be made and estates phased out or reduced is because of market demand. It’s demand led not manufacturer led.

Grumpy_chap

iwb100 said:

But the reason more and more SUVs started to be made and estates phased out or reduced is because of market demand. It’s demand led not manufacturer led.

It is manufacturer incentive led.

motorguy

Grumpy_chap said:

iwb100 said:

But the reason more and more SUVs started to be made and estates phased out or reduced is because of market demand. It’s demand led not manufacturer led.

It is manufacturer incentive led.

manufacturers offer incentives on whatever they're selling.  It has always been that way.

Large saloons, large hatchbacks and estate cars have fallen out of favour with the general public over the years.  Modern lifestyle focused cars are a better offering.

The original Qashqai was a game changer on that front.  

NBLondon

motorguy said:

Most of the big sellers are based on hatchbacks anyway, so you dont have the big running costs of a big SUV.

So crossovers then?   That's my understanding of the difference - an SUV was designed as such but a crossover shares it's platform with a hatchback/saloon.

motorguy said:

More space, better visibility and easier to load kids / luggage / groceries in to because its higher.

Its easy to see why they're popular.

Didn't that used to be the argument for the MPV?  Sticking with the Mondeo as my example - what happened to the S-Max?  If you didn't need the sheer size of a Galaxy; the S-max was an alternative to a Mondeo estate.

I suspect that fashion/image is a factor (going back towards the topic) and perhaps some people want to give the impression that they have a lifestyle that involves extreme sports at the weekend rather than one that involves grumpy children being delivered to music lessons at the weekend.

iwb100

NBLondon said:

motorguy said:

Most of the big sellers are based on hatchbacks anyway, so you dont have the big running costs of a big SUV.

So crossovers then?   That's my understanding of the difference - an SUV was designed as such but a crossover shares it's platform with a hatchback/saloon.

motorguy said:

More space, better visibility and easier to load kids / luggage / groceries in to because its higher.

Its easy to see why they're popular.

Didn't that used to be the argument for the MPV?  Sticking with the Mondeo as my example - what happened to the S-Max?  If you didn't need the sheer size of a Galaxy; the S-max was an alternative to a Mondeo estate.

I suspect that fashion/image is a factor (going back towards the topic) and perhaps some people want to give the impression that they have a lifestyle that involves extreme sports at the weekend rather than one that involves grumpy children being delivered to music lessons at the weekend.

Yeah but the buying public like the look of SUV’s. They didn’t like MPV’s for obvious reasons. 

It’s not some dastardly conspiracy, most non car enthusiasts like an SUV body shape. They don’t have any interest in pretending it’s an off roader they just like how it looks and the practicality it offers them. It’s also much less a jump to an suv than from a supermini to an estate at least mentally.

You can’t get away from SUVs are just super popular cars. They look good. They are practical and people like them. They are no good for the drive experience. But most people simply do not care about that and comfort wise they are unmatched, which those non car enthusiasts do care about. 

RichardD1970

Sea_Shell said:

Having given this more thought, what does impress me and turn my head are older "classics", that are in mint condition.  Usually 70/80s cars.

Capri

XR3i

Even early golf/fiesta/escort/astra etc.
Doubly so if they are a convertible!

They are rare now and so really stand out as unusual.  Not the ten a penny boxes everyone drives these days.

See lots of high spec BMWs, Mercs etc around me, none of them get a second look. The cars that do attract attention are the two mint Austin Allegros the old bloke down the road has. Both beige, one a VP. 

motorguy

Didn't that used to be the argument for the MPV?  Sticking with the Mondeo as my example - what happened to the S-Max?  If you didn't need the sheer size of a Galaxy; the S-max was an alternative to a Mondeo estate.

I suspect that fashion/image is a factor (going back towards the topic) and perhaps some people want to give the impression that they have a lifestyle that involves extreme sports at the weekend rather than one that involves grumpy children being delivered to music lessons at the weekend.

It did yes.

And yes, i agree.  

The whole image of "the people carrier" whereby it just looked like you'd given up put a lot of people off.

Just like estate cars makes you look like a sales rep.  

The small SUV / soft roader / crossover / lifestyle vehicle changed that and made the need for extra space acceptable in a "lifestyle choice" way.

NBLondon

iwb100 said:

Yeah but the buying public like the look of SUV’s. They didn’t like MPV’s for obvious reasons. 

I don't.   I find most crossovers ugly and small pseudo SUVs to be pretentious.  But that's just my taste.

What are these "obvious reasons" that people didn't like MPVs and when did they start?  Because if people don't like MPVs  -how come the idea didn't die a death with the Renault Espace?

iwb100 said:

It’s not some dastardly conspiracy, most non car enthusiasts like an SUV body shape. They don’t have any interest in pretending it’s an off roader they just like how it looks and the practicality it offers them. 

Are you basing this on anything other than your personal preference?  The marketing departments of car makers seem to think the "hey - you can off-road in it like these cool people" approach works.

iwb100 said:

It’s also much less a jump to an suv than from a supermini to an estate at least mentally.

That's an interesting thought...  Do you mean the jump from a supermini to a crossover that's the same length but higher-riding and squarer is less intimidating than the jump to a longer large hatchback?  Could well be for some folks.

iwb100 said:

They are no good for the drive experience. But most people simply do not care about that and comfort wise they are unmatched, which those non car enthusiasts do care about. 

Absolutely - for those who are not interested in handling or performance then space and comfort or possibly gadgets will be a  big factor.   But I'm not convinced you can say "comfort-wise they are unmatched"  - that suggests a higher-riding short crossover is more comfortable than a medium size saloon on a longer wheelbase?