2 X CCBC Claims from UKPC via DCB Legal

atothep

Hello All,

 

I appreciate this forum gets bombarded with posts from newbies who haven’t done any research on the board, but I’ve many hours reading the various sticky threads and still have a few questions that I would be really grateful for some advice on.

 

Brief Outline

-          Received 2 claim forms from the CCBC from UKPC via DCB legal totalling approx. £325 each. These are both dated 14th Feb 2022

-          The fines were for two separate vehicles back in April and June 2016.

-          Each fine was for me failing to display my permit in either my own residential parking space or a visitor space (until I see the SAR evidence I can’t recall where the vehicles were parked.)

 

I think I understand the initial process to be the following:

 

-          Contact my MP (Done)

 

-          Submit 2 x AOS (Submitted 19/02/2022)

 

-          Request a SAR to: DPO@ukparkingcontrol.com. (I no longer own either vehicle and the address they sent the claim forms to is a very old address.  If I attach scans of the claims I’ve received will that be enough to prove identity?)

 

-          Email DCB legal LTD seeking ‘debt advice’ (Would I just find a generic email address on DCB’s website? Would I just need to specify the claim numbers to them and am I okay to give them personal information?)

 

-          Fill in the defence template an put my own facts into sections #2 & #3

 

 

-          Send defence template to CCBCAQ email address and await further court paperwork.

 

I’d also really appreciate some advice on the best reasoning to enter into sections #2 and #3.

 

 More background below:

 

-          At the time of the tickets, I was renting a room in my friends flat so although I had a permit to park in the space, technically I didn’t have the lease in my name. My friend would be willing to write a letter confirming he was the owner and I had his permission to use the spot if required.

-          I later went on to buy the flat so do have proof of ownership (albeit after the dates of the fines) In total I estimate I parked in the space 1500-2000 times between 2015 and 2021 and only forgot the permit on these 2 occasions.

-          Although registered to me, both of the vehicles were insured via my work’s fleet insurance meaning technically there could have been up to 6 potential drivers at any time. 

-          I don’t remember the signage being great but obviously don’t have any pictures of it. A new parking company have since taken over ownership of the car park. The car park is a gated private car park and fobs are required to enter it. Presumably now the only evidence of the appropriate signage will be whatever is shown in the SAR’s evidence?

 

I think I have two options. The first is to prove that I was technically allowed to park in the space and I can prove this through a letter from the owner (my friend.) The car park is also a gated private car park that requests a fob to enter it, so the fact my vehicle was in the car park should prove it was allowed to be there? 

The second is to deny that I have any knowledge of who was driving these vehicles back in 2016 as they could have potentially been driven by any member of staff who work for my company (I’m an office manager for a joinery company.) We could have in fact been carrying out work in the premises by approval of the owner and could potentially back this up with invoices and a statement

 

Finally, as I have received two separate claims, is there anything I have to do differently? Presumably the request for SAR should cover both cases? Will I have to attend two different court dates?

 

Any help/suggestions/mockery will be greatly appreciated.

 

Many thanks

Jenni_D

Are the two claims to the same named person at the same current address*, and relate to two vehicles at the same previous address? If yes then they should really be consolidating these into a single claim.

* You're lucky they even did a trace - often they just file claims at the PCN address and get default wins.

Fruitcake

They are not fines.

If you have received a court claim from the Northampton Business Centre, then you are too late to ask for the case to be put on hold.

Even if the claims are for different vehicles, if the location and material facts are similar or identical except for dates, the you should be telling the claimant at every opportunity to have them combined.

Yes, the claim form should be good enough for proof of ID, but it wouldn't hurt to include a redacted utility bill or bank/card statement as well. Do not use photo ID under any circumstances.

PPCs monitor this forum. I believe you have provided enough information in your post for a judge to determine the identity of the driver on the balance of probabilities. It would be very unwise to then deny knowledge of who was driving, especially if the PPC were to show a screengrab of your post to the judge.

Anyway, an own space case is generally better defended as driver because everything you have mentioned above is evidence, and within your knowledge.

The friend should provide a copy of their lease/AST as well as a witness statement that the driver had permission to park in the leaseholder's demised space.

Para 2 should read something like, *the defendant is either the keeper, or keeper and driver,* and liability is denied. *Delete as applicable*

Para 3 should explain this was a gated residential site, and the defendant had express permission to park in the leaseholder's demised space.
The friend's lease/AST has/had primacy of contract that could not be varied or superseded by a parking company who is/was not a party to the lease/property rental agreement.

atothep

Jenni_D said:

Are the two claims to the same named person at the same current address*, and relate to two vehicles at the same previous address? If yes then they should really be consolidating these into a single claim.

* You're lucky they even did a trace - often they just file claims at the PCN address and get default wins.

They are both addressed to me but one uses an abbreviation of my first name and the other uses my full first name. The have been sent to my parents address which was possibly the address the cars may have been registered to 5 years ago

atothep

Fruitcake said:

They are not fines.

If you have received a court claim from the Northampton Business Centre, then you are too late to ask for the case to be put on hold.

Even if the claims are for different vehicles, if the location and material facts are similar or identical except for dates, the you should be telling the claimant at every opportunity to have them combined.

Yes, the claim form should be good enough for proof of ID, but it wouldn't hurt to include a redacted utility bill or bank/card statement as well. Do not use photo ID under any circumstances.

PPCs monitor this forum. I believe you have provided enough information in your post for a judge to determine the identity of the driver on the balance of probabilities. It would be very unwise to then deny knowledge of who was driving, especially if the PPC were to show a screengrab of your post to the judge.

Anyway, an own space case is generally better defended as driver because everything you have mentioned above is evidence, and within your knowledge.

The friend should provide a copy of their lease/AST as well as a witness statement that the driver had permission to park in the leaseholder's demised space.

Para 2 should read something like, *the defendant is either the keeper, or keeper and driver,* and liability is denied. *Delete as applicable*

Para 3 should explain this was a gated residential site, and the defendant had express permission to park in the leaseholder's demised space.
The friend's lease/AST has/had primacy of contract that could not be varied or superseded by a parking company who is/was not a party to the lease/property rental agreement.

Thanks. This is really helpful. Still trying to get my head around the terminology. At what stage should I be informing the claimant that the two claims need to be combined?

During 2016 we did actually carry out some work on the owners flat so there is potential that the car was used by a colleague but I wouldn't be able to say for certain if they did on the dates in question.

I will chase up my friend to see if they still have a copy of their lease.

Thanks again

Jenni_D

Have you contacted the Claimant to send them a Data Rectification Notice advising them of your current address and demanding that they erase (that exact term) any previous address details?

Fruitcake

Inform the claimant tomorrow, and when you send the SAR, and in each and every contact with them, that the CPR requires claims such as these to be combined.

Add it to both defences as well. 

KeithP

atothep said:

-          Received 2 claim forms from the CCBC from UKPC via DCB legal. These are both dated 14th Feb 2022.

-          Submit 2 x AOS (Submitted 19/02/2022)

With a Claim Issue Dates of 14th February, and having filed Acknowledgments of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 21st March 2022 to file your Defences.

That's four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

atothep

Jenni_D said:

Have you contacted the Claimant to send them a Data Rectification Notice advising them of your current address and demanding that they erase (that exact term) any previous address details?

Hi Jenni. Would I just send this request to their generic email address or does it go via their DOP officer? If this request is covered in one of the pinned posts let me know which one so I can look up the info myself. Thanks again

Jenni_D

DPO address - same address as you send the SAR.

atothep

I have now submitted by SAR and requested that they erase previous addresses and also combine the multiple claims.

I'm a bit confused about this section:

"As well as the SAR to the parking firm's DPO, also write another email, if they are using Gladstones, DCLegal, BW Legal or other solicitor.
Your email tells the solicitor:
(a) I am seeking debt advice but I deny any debt and the case must be put 'on hold' for not less than 30 days under the PAP for debt claims 2017.
(b) I have sent your client a SAR
(c) also confirm your correct 'address for service' if you've moved and the PPC has two addresses."

Do I find an email address for DCB Legal LTD who appear to be the solictors working for UKPC? Do I just reference my claim numbers and copy points a-c and edit accordingly?

Many thanks