Economy 7 smart meter timing

CombatMarmot

QrizB said:

CombatMarmot said:

The question is really who is controlling the switching signal.

Octopus are. The 5th terminal is switched by the smart meter, and Octopus send the timings to the meter.

Thank you for this. It seems that they stuck with the times used by the pre-smart meter system by coincidence or otherwise. It made me check the billing I have for the 13 March - 3rd June last year (which I got in August, after I switched to go).

What I was billed: 453.7 / 536.5 (Night / Day)

If I process the half hourly readings using the times they gave me: 378.6 / 608.0 (Night / Day)

If I process the half hourly readings using when I believe the econ 7 period actually is: 445.9 / 540.7 (Night / Day)

i.e. the billing aligns with how the circuit is energised. Rather unfortunate that this uncertainty would have been resolved very easily if there was a night reading available.

So to answer the OP: Ignore what Octopus tell you the times are.

MWT

CombatMarmot said:

The old teleswitch and meter was replaced by a single 5 terminal meter. 

The question is really who is controlling the switching signal.

The ALCS timing is entirely down to Octopus and they are able to set it to match their EV tariffs like 'Go' or 'Go Faster' as well, not just the E7 hours.

It can be tricky to get the ALCS timing adjusted, but the smart team do know how to do it, just takes a little nudging sometimes.

exchris42

Thanks for replies folks, I've just checked in so I'll do replies in order:
Swipe, my IHD confirms that off peak rate starts at 12.30am, it's also clear from it that the storage heaters circuit is active at midnight (by how much Kwh are used).

Coffeehound: the only way I can avoid the heaters using peak rate electricity is keep trip fuse switches turned off until 12.30am each night, I tend to stay up late so I might just do that!

Gerry1, thanks for correcting my terminology, I am aware of the these differences but posted colloquially as opposed to technically correctly. You're right: I took the 11.30pm to 7.30am from a website, stating E7 in the South is (7 hours) between these times. I am not sure what a 'teleswitch' meter is? mine was installed last year and believe it is a smart meter. As I said it is clear and evidenced when the E7 circuit is activated (midnight), Octopus have confirmed that I am charged cheap rate only from 12.30am

MWT, I think the tariff is immaterial, but it's Occupier Flexible Octopus October 2021 v1. and yes the IHD shows the standard rate until 12.30am

Bexie1989 it is not obvious on the meter where the tariff info is, there is a reading for Rate which displays T1, it could be that, I'll check tonight.

CombatMarmot, yes it sounds like we have a similar problem.

I think I realise how the system should work,...but it doesn't sync. Can anyone confirm that Octopus can control the meter remotely, hence change the cheap rate switch to occur at 12.30am? That would solve my problems (apart from paying the bills anyway!)
thanks folks.

MWT

exchris42 said:

I think I realise how the system should work,...but it doesn't sync. Can anyone confirm that Octopus can control the meter remotely, hence change the cheap rate switch to occur at 12.30am? That would solve my problems (apart from paying the bills anyway!)
thanks folks.

As long as they either installed a 5-port Smart meter, or a 4-port with an external contactor controlled by the ALCS function in the smart meter then yes, Octopus can set the switch times to match the tariff.

If in doubt, post a photo of the meter and the area around it so we can see what you have there...

Gerry1

exchris42 said:

Gerry1, thanks for correcting my terminology, I am aware of the these differences but posted colloquially as opposed to technically correctly. You're right: I took the 11.30pm to 7.30am from a website, stating E7 in the South is (7 hours) between these times. I am not sure what a 'teleswitch' meter is? mine was installed last year and believe it is a smart meter. As I said it is clear and evidenced when the E7 circuit is activated (midnight), Octopus have confirmed that I am charged cheap rate only from 12.30am.

A Radio Teleswitch (RTS) uses digital data transmitted by Radio 4 Long Wave on 198kHz to synchronise an inbuilt timer and contactor.  The LW data contract had been due to expire in 2013 but keeps being extended.

There's a widespread belief that the sky will fall in if existing RTSs lose their R4 signal and that users will freeze or boil thereafter.  However, although E7 switching times can vary dynamically by +/- 15 minutes, the vast majority of RTSs are operated statically rather than dynamically.  Very little would change, the remaining RTSs would just become the equivalent of the traditional motorised rotary timeswitch.

Your problem associated with the introduction of smart meters seems to be a known issue.  Lots of info here, but it's quite technical.

exchris42

thanks MWT, see below a photo of meter etc (ignore the herbs!): the smaller fuse box, on the left, houses the E7 trips (water & storage heaters).
That is interesting that Octopus can correct the timing of switching remotely. Sorry to be annoying to confirm that is the case, but I wanted to check before I start insisting they do so. Despite nearly 20 emails to and fro it is not a suggestion they have as yet made.
Thanks for the link Gerry1: I see what you mean about it being technical, so much jargon and abbreviations!...I soon gave up.

QrizB

exchris42 said:

That is interesting that Octopus can correct the timing of switching remotely. Sorry to be annoying to confirm that is the case, but I wanted to check before I start insisting they do so. Despite nearly 20 emails to and fro it is not a suggestion they have as yet made.

Your photo shows a five-terminal smart meter. The meter timings are set in software; the only people who should have routine access to change these timings are Octopus.

However, Octopus could achieve an equivalent result by aligning your billing times to match the current smart meter timings. They could even do this retrospectively.

In your position I'd be asking for a retrospective billing correction even if they decide to change the meter timings.

MWT

QrizB said:

However, Octopus could achieve an equivalent result by aligning your billing times to match the current smart meter timings. They could even do this retrospectively.

In your position I'd be asking for a retrospective billing correction even if they decidt to change the meter timings.

I doubt they would do the first of those, but the 2nd is entirely in order.

They should correct the ALCS settings to match the tariff, and recalculate the previous bills accordingly.

exchris42

Thanks Qriz & MWT, I have told Octopus to correct the ALCS settings to match the tariff and recalculate previous billing, including "I trust that Octopus are not intending to intentionally charge me incorrectly ie allowing the Octopus installed equipment to charge me at peak rate for what should be charged at cheap rate."
Let's hope they sort it!

EssexHebridean

Fingers crossed that gets a reasonable response. Please do come back and let us know how this is resolved won't you!