Economy 7 smart meter timing

exchris42

Hi all, I have economy 7 running 4 storage heaters in a small (rented) house. Octopus Energy fitted the smart meter last year (albeit with different occupant and hence tariff). Octopus have told me that my cheap rate starts at 12.30am but I can hear a click at midnight (and fast flashing light on the meter) which clearly switches on the storage heaters circuit. From Octopus online data I can see there's a big surge in power (10kWh) at midnight. This means I am paying peak rate for the biggest use of power.  
I live in West Sussex and apparently Economy 7 should be between 11.30pm and 7.30am. Octopus have told me that '...the time switch is set up to operate alongside the meter change at 12:30; there is however a tolerance of 1 hour and 10 minutes, as defined by Ofgem.'
This all seems contradictory.
The digital display on the meter shows the correct time of day.
How can I get the three timings synchronised: of supply, billing and domestic switching?
I am of course interested in sorting out my own situation but if Octopus are 'selling' power at a peak rate whilst 'buying' it at a cheap rate for the most important hour of the day they are making some easy and large profit through many customers in the same situation, and at their expense.

Swipe

If it comes on at midnight then that is likely when your off peak rate starts regardless of what Octopus has told you. You can check your IHD for the current tariff just after midnight to confirm this or you could just check the smart meter off peak register to see if it's incrementing.

coffeehound

Octopus are one of the few suppliers that actively sets up SMs with Time of Use data, so they are definitely in control of the meter's switching times.  Could it be they are resorting to dirty tricks to claw back on their loss-making tariffs?  Let's hope not.  Never heard of an Ofgem tolerance between switching and charging, but then it hasn't been an issue before SMs.  I would be controlling your off-peak consumers at the wall switches until this is sorted out.

Gerry1

Welcome to the forum.

exchris42 said:

From Octopus online data I can see there's a big surge in power (10kWh) at midnight. This means I am paying peak rate for the biggest use of power. 

Nope, you've misunderstood several things.  A big surge in power would be an increase of 10kW at the stroke of midnight; a big surge in energy would be an increase of 10kWh from midnight to 1am.

exchris42 said:

I live in West Sussex and apparently Economy 7 should be between 11.30pm and 7.30am.

That would be eight hours.  E7 times vary, so 11.30pm - 6.30am would be OK, as would midnight - 7.00am and 12.30am - 7.30am.  Radio teleswitch meters on E7 have a tolerance of +/- 15 minutes.

exchris42 said:

This means I am paying peak rate for the biggest use of power.

Seems unlikely that you could be charged peak rate when the meter has switched to the low rate.  Do you have any evidence that this is happening?

MWT

Which tariff are you on?

Have you checked the meter at just after midnight to see which register is active once the 'click' has occurred?

Bexie1989

What sort of meter is it? I've got a smart meter on Eco 7 and if I go out and press the buttons to see the readings, the current rate being used is shown with "++".

Basically: The day rate is called IMP R01. The night is IMP R02.

When I check during the day, they're listed as
"++IMP R01++"
"IMP R02"

And at night after the clunk its
"IMP R01"
"++IMP R02++"

So it's clearly showing which is in use. Yours might have something similar to show which rate is currently being used. Worth going and checking it both during the day and right after the nightly clunk if you want to make sure it's using the correct rate.

CombatMarmot

This is almost exactly the same problem I had with Octopus on Economy 7 after changing to the smart meter.

My economy 7 is a separate circuit controlled by a remote tele-switch, and those times did not align with the times that Octopus claimed were the economy 7 hours. So, like exchris42, I was concerned that I was effectively going to be paying peak rate for the first part of the economy 7 period.

The smart meter that was fitted does not have a "day" and "night" reading and basically cycled through 4 displays: date, time, total reading, zero reading. I tried to point out that I was now less informed about my total usage than when I had the previous meter. With the half hourly data available from the Octopus portal, it is very obvious when the economy 7 period starts since the water heater will kick in. So to work out total usage, some Excel processing of the overall data is required. The in home display was useless.

I like Octopus as a company trying to innovate, but they did not remotely seem to grasp the issue. I moved to Go in June 2021 and I suspect that I'll be leaving Octopus when that expires since I no longer qualify for that tariff (no electric car) due to this Economy 7 situation.

Swipe

CombatMarmot said:

This is almost exactly the same problem I had with Octopus on Economy 7 after changing to the smart meter.

My economy 7 is a separate circuit controlled by a remote tele-switch, and those times did not align with the times that Octopus claimed were the economy 7 hours. So, like exchris42, I was concerned that I was effectively going to be paying peak rate for the first part of the economy 7 period.

The smart meter that was fitted does not have a "day" and "night" reading and basically cycled through 4 displays: date, time, total reading, zero reading. I tried to point out that I was now less informed about my total usage than when I had the previous meter. With the half hourly data available from the Octopus portal, it is very obvious when the economy 7 period starts since the water heater will kick in. So to work out total usage, some Excel processing of the overall data is required. The in home display was useless.

I like Octopus as a company trying to innovate, but they did not remotely seem to grasp the issue. I moved to Go in June 2021 and I suspect that I'll be leaving Octopus when that expires since I no longer qualify for that tariff (no electric car) due to this Economy 7 situation.

So they didn't fit a 5 terminal E7 smart meter for you? I insisted I got one with EDF and they removed the mechanical switch timer so now my E7 storage heater circuit is controlled by the smart meter.

QrizB

CombatMarmot said:

My economy 7 is a separate circuit controlled by a remote tele-switch, and those times did not align with the times that Octopus claimed were the economy 7 hours. So, like exchris42, I was concerned that I was effectively going to be paying peak rate for the first part of the economy 7 period.

The smart meter that was fitted does not have a "day" and "night" reading and basically cycled through 4 displays: date, time, total reading, zero reading. I tried to point out that I was now less informed about my total usage than when I had the previous meter. With the half hourly data available from the Octopus portal, it is very obvious when the economy 7 period starts since the water heater will kick in. So to work out total usage, some Excel processing of the overall data is required. The in home display was useless.

I like Octopus as a company trying to innovate, but they did not remotely seem to grasp the issue. I moved to Go in June 2021 and I suspect that I'll be leaving Octopus when that expires since I no longer qualify for that tariff (no electric car) due to this Economy 7 situation.

It sounds to me as though the smart meter might not have been installed correctly. I would expect the teleswitch to have been removed and a signal taken from the smart meter to replace it.

CombatMarmot

The old teleswitch and meter was replaced by a single 5 terminal meter. 

The question is really who is controlling the switching signal.

QrizB

CombatMarmot said:

The old teleswitch and meter was replaced by a single 5 terminal meter.

Good, that's the best outcome. When you wrote "My economy 7 is a separate circuit controlled by a remote tele-switch" I thought you meant it still was.

The question is really who is controlling the switching signal.

Octopus are. The 5th terminal is switched by the smart meter, and Octopus send the timings to the meter.