But one of the questions we most often get asked is:
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I agree. You just need to look through the ever-increasing number of posts with the same replies from many of the posters on this forum. Personally I think that the words price cap should be replaced with tariff cap or (better still) energy rates cap. I'd also like Ofgem to ditch the single figure for the price cap (using their Typical Domestic Consumption Values) with a more nuanced set of numbers for say low/medium/high users.MSE_Chris said:The energy price cap is misnamed – there’s no cap on how much you pay. If you use more energy, you'll pay more. The cap is on the standing charges and the unit rates for gas and electricity. Yet the cap is usually quoted as an annual figure, based on a typical amount of energy use (currently £1,277/year rising to £1,971/year in April).
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The tables that Ofgem publish don't include VAT.athonjon said:I also noticed that the rates between Ofgem and MSE vary. For most of my numbers (Southern region) it is a 5% difference, which does suggest VAT. But for Gas units it varies by just less than 1%. Anyone know why?
double_dutchy said:The tables that Ofgem publish don't include VAT.athonjon said:I also noticed that the rates between Ofgem and MSE vary. For most of my numbers (Southern region) it is a 5% difference, which does suggest VAT. But for Gas units it varies by just less than 1%. Anyone know why?
Can you specify exactly where you get a 1% discrepancy?
The 12,000 column includes the standing charge. So minus the standing charge and then divide by 12,000.athonjon said:double_dutchy said:The tables that Ofgem publish don't include VAT.athonjon said:I also noticed that the rates between Ofgem and MSE vary. For most of my numbers (Southern region) it is a 5% difference, which does suggest VAT. But for Gas units it varies by just less than 1%. Anyone know why?
Can you specify exactly where you get a 1% discrepancy?
So when I compared the Southern region caps (direct debit) on the MSE page with the Ofgem tables (other payment method), MSEs are 5% higher for Electricity (standing charge and units) and for the Gas standing charge, which obviously accounts for VAT. But the Gas units are just shy of 1% lower on the MSE page. For Southern/Gas/Units Ofgem states £1,800.12 for 12,000 kWh. So 180012 / 12000 = 15.001p per kWh. MSE states 14.88p per kWh. I wondered if it was a one-off error, but i tried it with the Gas unit figures for Northern and London regions and it's a similar difference.
You're right - Makes sense now. Thanks!t0rt0ise said:The 12,000 column includes the standing charge. So minus the standing charge and then divide by 12,000.athonjon said:double_dutchy said:The tables that Ofgem publish don't include VAT.athonjon said:I also noticed that the rates between Ofgem and MSE vary. For most of my numbers (Southern region) it is a 5% difference, which does suggest VAT. But for Gas units it varies by just less than 1%. Anyone know why?
Can you specify exactly where you get a 1% discrepancy?
So when I compared the Southern region caps (direct debit) on the MSE page with the Ofgem tables (other payment method), MSEs are 5% higher for Electricity (standing charge and units) and for the Gas standing charge, which obviously accounts for VAT. But the Gas units are just shy of 1% lower on the MSE page. For Southern/Gas/Units Ofgem states £1,800.12 for 12,000 kWh. So 180012 / 12000 = 15.001p per kWh. MSE states 14.88p per kWh. I wondered if it was a one-off error, but i tried it with the Gas unit figures for Northern and London regions and it's a similar difference.
I don't think this is right. My understanding is you take the two Ofgem points at 0 and 3100 and draw a line through them. Then the suppliers tariff always needs to be under this line for any kWh value (the x axis) which wouldn't be the case with your proposal for any point past 3100 kWh usage.QrizB said:superkoopauk said:No that is not possible. The standing charge and unit rates are independently capped.double_dutchy said:So, theoretically it's possible for a supplier to have a zero standing charge and therefore a higher unit rate.......but all the current SVRs seem to be set pretty much in line with the maximum SC - are you aware of any suppliers who are charging differently, i.e. a standing charge significantly below the maximum allowed, and if so what would be the justification for doing that from their perspective?On the contrary, it is entirely possible.For example, with electricity the two components of the cap are a maximum cost for a customer using zero kWh (which caps the standing charge) and a maximum cost including standing charge for a customer using 3100kWh.If a supplier set a zero standing charge they could charge 1/3100th of the other value per kWh.