Section 21 Claim form for possession.

[Deleted User]

JuanBallOfWimbledon said:

Are you absolutely sure this was an intentional thing? I know next to nothing about benefits, but there are posts on this forum and others like it on a regular basis about mix ups with benefits payments, payments not being made etc etc etc. My already financially struggling, working, niece just last October had her tax credits stopped with just a letter stating it was due to a change in her circumstances. She was in a real mess due to this. It’s all been sorted now, and was indeed a mistake on the part of the tax credits office. 

I only ask as it’s clear you also know next to nothing about benefits, and have said above that the DWP wouldn’t disclose any information other than ‘she had a change to her circumstances’. Yet so far you’ve said that she ‘Seems to know what she is doing’, is ‘giving me false details’, has ‘been dishonest disclosing wrong information to get a higher benefit’, that she ‘ has no intention of been honet now’ (sic), is ‘a professional cheat and liar’, and is ‘playing the system’. You’ve also suggested to her that this ‘behaviour could affect her employment‘.

Is it possible she really doesn’t know what’s happened to her UC? Also, for what it’s worth, I’m a member of a group for tenants and landlords and have seen a few posts from people struggling to find a home who claim to have been, let’s say, ‘strongly encouraged’ by the council to take a property that they’d massively struggle to afford. 

She may be all the things you say she is, but they’re strong accusations if you’re not certain. Focus less on her potential benefit fraud and more on the issue that concerns you, as suggested above. 

This is only month 2 of a 12 month AST tenancy.

From the information I have from my research something has happened for UC to reduce payment from £1200 to £500.

As a tenant, communication is very important if she is struggling she needs to inform me. I am very proactive, she can log into to her journal online but acts unaware when I informed her of the drop in payment. 

I have done direct payment so UC gets paid to me directly.

If there is a problem she needs to communicate and inform me. 

Will update the forum. 

Today will be send a reminder of payment via text message, email and letter (will collect proof of postage) 

GDB2222

MaryNB said:

Zoe02 said:

diggingdude said:

Sadly this is a reason why the "no DSS" attitude still applies to renting. Hope you get rid of her as soon as possible 

I agree and once I am free from this never again. 

With rule 3 of the forum in mind, you should be aware having a No DSS policy is unlawful discrimination. You can't, by law, reject someone for the sole reason they are on benefits.

Just to clarify, being on benefits is not a protected characteristic. But, a disproportionate number of women and disabled people are on benefits, so discrimination against people on benefits indirectly discriminates against women and disabled people. 

pinkshoes

It might be worth suggesting to the tenant that you meet somewhere for tea and cake to discuss the situation moving forwards.

The tenant needs to pay their rent and the full amount. If something has changed within their household (e.g. less UC due to adult children earning) then they need to find another way to cover the rent e.g. charging the children for board and lodgings!

You can be a supportive landlord but at the same time making it clear that rent arrears need to be covered, and also letting the tenant know the consequence of being evicted for rent arrears (e.g. the council will deem them to have made themselves intentionally homeless and therefore no priority to help them with housing).

A friend of mine had adult children living at home and as a consequence had their benefits cut. The kids were initially not so keen on handing over money each week but when they realised how much renting a room elsewhere would cost they then agreed quite happily!

[Deleted User]

GDB2222 said:

MaryNB said:

Zoe02 said:

diggingdude said:

Sadly this is a reason why the "no DSS" attitude still applies to renting. Hope you get rid of her as soon as possible 

I agree and once I am free from this never again. 

With rule 3 of the forum in mind, you should be aware having a No DSS policy is unlawful discrimination. You can't, by law, reject someone for the sole reason they are on benefits.

Just to clarify, being on benefits is not a protected characteristic. But, a disproportionate number of women and disabled people are on benefits, so discrimination against people on benefits indirectly discriminates against women and disabled people. 

Definitely discrimination of any form is not the way forward.
Going forward, I will have to be very selective of the next tenant.

They will have to pass the various checks in order to be accepted. 

[Deleted User]

pinkshoes said:

It might be worth suggesting to the tenant that you meet somewhere for tea and cake to discuss the situation moving forwards.

The tenant needs to pay their rent and the full amount. If something has changed within their household (e.g. less UC due to adult children earning) then they need to find another way to cover the rent e.g. charging the children for board and lodgings!

You can be a supportive landlord but at the same time making it clear that rent arrears need to be covered, and also letting the tenant know the consequence of being evicted for rent arrears (e.g. the council will deem them to have made themselves intentionally homeless and therefore no priority to help them with housing).

A friend of mine had adult children living at home and as a consequence had their benefits cut. The kids were initially not so keen on handing over money each week but when they realised how much renting a room elsewhere would cost they then agreed quite happily!

Will have to have a professional relationship with the tenant.

4 days now and approximately £700 is outstanding.

In the past when I send messages, tenant prefers to call but going forward documenting everything.

The reality is that rent is expensive and everything has gone up, but I am not a charity the bills will need to be paid.

[Deleted User]

poppy12345 said:

Zoe02 said:

deannagone said:

Look at what HLA is for your area.  Depends where it is, but it might be that HLA levels (the max they will pay for monthly rent) won't begin to meet what you stated the rent is.  

I'm not sure that owing rent on its own is enough to create registration problems for the tenant.  You will have problems getting a criminal conviction.  The code the NMC produces (only a quick read) refers more to professional practice.  Not what happens if a professional has debt problems (otherwise anyone with a mortgage could be de-registered, CCJ's even aren't enough).  

Did you get references from a previous LL or did you just take the tenant on the basis of the referral from the local authority?

When she rambles, politely but calmly bring her back to 'finding a solution'. Keep dated notes of all conversations if she refuses to answer written forms of communication.  If she makes an agreement to pay rent arrears, write a letter detailing what was agreed.  Get proof of postage from the PO (free).  

She might be able to get a Discretionary Housing Payment.  Ask your local council about this.

The LHA in the area is £1595.62 for a 4 bedroom which is what the monthly rent is.

The issue is the false infomation to get universal credit. When you have working adult children this has to be disclosed. She has 3 adult children living there but only disclosed 1.

Universal credit have reduced payment byy more than half.

Her payment have been sanctioned and reduced. 

I don't understand this. You said the house is a 4 bed. If she only disclosed 1 adult child living there then she would only have been entitled to the 2 bedroom rate of local housing allowance for the area. If the non dependant is 21 and under there is no non dependant deductions, even if they are working. See link. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6331658/landlord-seeking-thoughts-regarding-dishonest-tenant/p3

Therefore, even from the start of the tenancy agreement, she wouldn't have been entitled to 4 bed rate, if she didn't declare the other adult children living with her. See LHA rates here. 

If she had declared them all living there then she would be entitled to 4 bed rate of LHA with a deduction of £75.53 x 2 for two non dependants, if they work. Unless she claims a qualifying disability benefit. Or the non dependants receive certain disability benefits or carers allowance. 

Having said that, as they are all non dependants, i don't understand why you didn't have each of them named on the tenancy agreement, this way they would have all be responsible for their part of the rent.

Any earnings she receives during her assessment period will also reduce her entire UC by 55%.

Thanks I have made contact with UC and all makes sense now.

deduction of £75.53 x 2 for two non dependants, if they work. (so the children are not the main issue)

She has had a much higher earning December- January hence the massive drop.
Appears at the start of the tenancy did not work much hence the higher UC.

I have drafted my letter with attached rent statement. Will be emailed and posted today. 

Thank you all for your contributions. 

[Deleted User]

JuanBallOfWimbledon said:

Are you absolutely sure this was an intentional thing? I know next to nothing about benefits, but there are posts on this forum and others like it on a regular basis about mix ups with benefits payments, payments not being made etc etc etc. My already financially struggling, working, niece just last October had her tax credits stopped with just a letter stating it was due to a change in her circumstances. She was in a real mess due to this. It’s all been sorted now, and was indeed a mistake on the part of the tax credits office. 

I only ask as it’s clear you also know next to nothing about benefits, and have said above that the DWP wouldn’t disclose any information other than ‘she had a change to her circumstances’. Yet so far you’ve said that she ‘Seems to know what she is doing’, is ‘giving me false details’, has ‘been dishonest disclosing wrong information to get a higher benefit’, that she ‘ has no intention of been honet now’ (sic), is ‘a professional cheat and liar’, and is ‘playing the system’. You’ve also suggested to her that this ‘behaviour could affect her employment‘.

Is it possible she really doesn’t know what’s happened to her UC? Also, for what it’s worth, I’m a member of a group for tenants and landlords and have seen a few posts from people struggling to find a home who claim to have been, let’s say, ‘strongly encouraged’ by the council to take a property that they’d massively struggle to afford. 

She may be all the things you say she is, but they’re strong accusations if you’re not certain. Focus less on her potential benefit fraud and more on the issue that concerns you, as suggested above. 

Any earnings she receives during her assessment period will also reduce her entire UC by 55%.

She has had a higher earning hence the drop in UC.

JuanBallOfWimbledon

Zoe02 said:

JuanBallOfWimbledon said:

Are you absolutely sure this was an intentional thing? I know next to nothing about benefits, but there are posts on this forum and others like it on a regular basis about mix ups with benefits payments, payments not being made etc etc etc. My already financially struggling, working, niece just last October had her tax credits stopped with just a letter stating it was due to a change in her circumstances. She was in a real mess due to this. It’s all been sorted now, and was indeed a mistake on the part of the tax credits office. 

I only ask as it’s clear you also know next to nothing about benefits, and have said above that the DWP wouldn’t disclose any information other than ‘she had a change to her circumstances’. Yet so far you’ve said that she ‘Seems to know what she is doing’, is ‘giving me false details’, has ‘been dishonest disclosing wrong information to get a higher benefit’, that she ‘ has no intention of been honet now’ (sic), is ‘a professional cheat and liar’, and is ‘playing the system’. You’ve also suggested to her that this ‘behaviour could affect her employment‘.

Is it possible she really doesn’t know what’s happened to her UC? Also, for what it’s worth, I’m a member of a group for tenants and landlords and have seen a few posts from people struggling to find a home who claim to have been, let’s say, ‘strongly encouraged’ by the council to take a property that they’d massively struggle to afford. 

She may be all the things you say she is, but they’re strong accusations if you’re not certain. Focus less on her potential benefit fraud and more on the issue that concerns you, as suggested above. 

Any earnings she receives during her assessment period will also reduce her entire UC by 55%.

She has had a higher earning hence the drop in UC.

You must be relieved to now be fairly sure you don’t have a professional cheat, liar and fraud renting your property. Good luck with sorting the arrears, as @pinkshoes said, be firm but understanding 👍🏻

[Deleted User]

Thanks all, sent tenant a text, email and recorded delivery (received today). Balance payment has been made. 

Slithery

Zoe02 said:

Thanks all, sent tenant a text, email and recorded delivery (received today). Balance payment has been made. 

Just for future reference it's best not to use recorded delivery as the recipient can just refuse to sign for it and then it legally hasn't been delivered.

If you just send 2 copies from different post offices and get 'proof of posting' (which is free) then the letter is legally deemed to be served 3 days later, even if the recipient doesn't sign.