Section 21 Claim form for possession.

saajan_12

Zoe02 said:

Hi All,

I have a property let to a tenant which was introduced by the council. The tenant gets Universal credit payment and although the first payment was late with setting up UC eventually got paid after 2 weeks UC portion and tenant’s portion.

The  next month I contacted UC as the payment gets paid directly as I requested managed payment.

Monthly rent is £1600. It has now come to my attention that the tenant has disclose wrong information to UC, Therefore payment has been reduced from £1200 to £500 and tenant has only made payment of £400 meaning there is a shortfall of £700.

The tenant is a medical professional but works part time due to health  issues, has 3 grown children living with her but previously only revealed 1 grown child.

This is only month 2 of a 12 months AST tenancy.

Due to tenant providing false information to UC there has been a drop in benefit and when I informed tenant to chase up the shortfall she was in denial and said should be getting helped etc. informed me she would contact them but seems she know what she is doing and giving me false details.

Has anymore had similar experience? What does one do in such a situation?

You could send notice earlier under ground 10/11 only, but this is discretionary and may be denied if the judge is sympathetic to the tenant's benefits issues and gives them leeway. So I suggest: 

1. Send regular rent statements each month showing what is paid and what is outstanding. This could be in a monthly letter a few days after rent is due, politely asking for the arrears to be paid. This will show that you are working with the tenant on arrears not surprising them with notice. 
2. Once the arrears reach 2x monthly rent, then send a Section 8 notice stating ground  8+10+11. At this rate, if they continue underpaying by £700 then that'll be the day after month 6 rent is due. 
3. Upon notice expiry, apply to court for a possession order. 
4. Either this will get you a possession order from a judge or the tenant will pay down the arrears to keep it below 2 months. 

Separately on the UC front, you might want to ask the tenant if they want your help to provide evidence etc to get the UC increased, but up to you. 

[Deleted User]

GDB2222 said:

You said the tenant is a medical professional. Can you be more specific? 

A nurse on the NMC register.

I did inform her during my last conversation yesterday  that such behaviour could affect her employment.

I notice that she prefers calling than responding to messages.

She rambles on and on with excuses  avioding the main issue paying rent. 

[Deleted User]

saajan_12 said:

Zoe02 said:

Hi All,

I have a property let to a tenant which was introduced by the council. The tenant gets Universal credit payment and although the first payment was late with setting up UC eventually got paid after 2 weeks UC portion and tenant’s portion.

The  next month I contacted UC as the payment gets paid directly as I requested managed payment.

Monthly rent is £1600. It has now come to my attention that the tenant has disclose wrong information to UC, Therefore payment has been reduced from £1200 to £500 and tenant has only made payment of £400 meaning there is a shortfall of £700.

The tenant is a medical professional but works part time due to health  issues, has 3 grown children living with her but previously only revealed 1 grown child.

This is only month 2 of a 12 months AST tenancy.

Due to tenant providing false information to UC there has been a drop in benefit and when I informed tenant to chase up the shortfall she was in denial and said should be getting helped etc. informed me she would contact them but seems she know what she is doing and giving me false details.

Has anymore had similar experience? What does one do in such a situation?

You could send notice earlier under ground 10/11 only, but this is discretionary and may be denied if the judge is sympathetic to the tenant's benefits issues and gives them leeway. So I suggest: 

1. Send regular rent statements each month showing what is paid and what is outstanding. This could be in a monthly letter a few days after rent is due, politely asking for the arrears to be paid. This will show that you are working with the tenant on arrears not surprising them with notice. 
2. Once the arrears reach 2x monthly rent, then send a Section 8 notice stating ground  8+10+11. At this rate, if they continue underpaying by £700 then that'll be the day after month 6 rent is due. 
3. Upon notice expiry, apply to court for a possession order. 
4. Either this will get you a possession order from a judge or the tenant will pay down the arrears to keep it below 2 months. 

Separately on the UC front, you might want to ask the tenant if they want your help to provide evidence etc to get the UC increased, but up to you. 

The problem I am having is that the dishonesty, tenant was not pleased the truth has been found out. Without revealing too much has 3 grown kids aged 20-30 living with her and for benefit purpose only disclosed 1 child living with her. This is a 4 bedroom property.

1.      Will post the letter today or tomorrow, so will have proof. Rent was due 30/01 but because I contacted UC few days earlier realised there is a problem with UC payment amount.

2.      Duly noted, keeping fingers crossed tenant continues some payment otherwise 2 months arrears will come sooner.

3.      Hopefully goes smoothly

4.      Have read online that they play the system and know such and charities like shelter discourage them from leaving peacefully.

The UC, basically tenant gave false information regarding her circumstance. she has 3 grown kids (benefit reduce with grown kids who are working) but only disclosed 1, they found 2 hence the drop but in reality there are 3 kids (likely 2 in employment 1 studying). she provided me ID copies of all the people residing in the property. Its a 4 bedroom 4 occupants but UC were only aware of 2 based on information tenant provided to them.

Going forward maybe the mistake i made was not including all the kids all over 18 in the tenancy agreement.   

getmore4less

Introduction by the council.
Why were they involved?

What were the previous landlord references like?

This won't be the first time this has been done.

deannagone

Look at what HLA is for your area.  Depends where it is, but it might be that HLA levels (the max they will pay for monthly rent) won't begin to meet what you stated the rent is.  https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/benefits/benefits-to-help-with-housing-costs/universal-credit-and-paying-rent

I'm not sure that owing rent on its own is enough to create registration problems for the tenant.  You will have problems getting a criminal conviction.  The code the NMC produces (only a quick read) refers more to professional practice.  Not what happens if a professional has debt problems (otherwise anyone with a mortgage could be de-registered, CCJ's even aren't enough).  

Did you get references from a previous LL or did you just take the tenant on the basis of the referral from the local authority?

When she rambles, politely but calmly bring her back to 'finding a solution'. Keep dated notes of all conversations if she refuses to answer written forms of communication.  If she makes an agreement to pay rent arrears, write a letter detailing what was agreed.  Get proof of postage from the PO (free).  

She might be able to get a Discretionary Housing Payment.  Ask your local council about this.

MaryNB

Zoe02 said:

GDB2222 said:

Zoe02 said:

canaldumidi said:

You have a choice.

* Be understanding and discuss/agree a payment plan and/or drop in the rent, or some other arrangement that will allow your tenant to remain, and manage, whilst you maximise your rent received, or

* Serve a S8, evict and re-advertise.

If the latter you could serve S8 (G10) immediately and leave it to the court's discretion, or wait till arrears are 2 months+ and serve S8 (G8) which leaves the court with no discretion.

Thank you for the response.

The rent has already dropped by £700 currently and not covering the mortgage, BG homecare, home insurance etc. when i found out about the drop in UC from £1200 to £500 she mumbled on the phone she informed the council she could not afford the property. I was in shock. 

Need to read more into S8 (G10) only been there for 2 months and forsee stress and problems because every month i am not at ease with the uncertainty if she will make payment or not.

I have been researchin online and they make it seems that the section 8 is not strong enough and section 21 is better but will be minimum 6 months says after 4 months and 2 months’ notice period.  Because the tenant has been dishonest disclosing wrong information to get a higher benefit when in reality she cannot afford the rent, although the working children should be contributing it seems she has no intention of been honet now. Will look more into S8 (G10) and S8 (G8) Thanks. 

You realise that serving the notice is just to start the process. You then have to issue court proceedings.

You cannot issue S21 to expire before the end of the fixed term of the tenancy.

Ok thanks.

The tenancy has a break clause that if rent is late by 14 days.not sure if this helps, idealy would have prefered to sort this out without the long court process but gut feeling telling me things might get even worse.

If at any time:- 

 any part of the Rent is outstanding for 14 days after becoming due (whether formally demanded or not) and/or 

 there is any breach, non-observance or non-performance by the Tenant of any covenant or other term of this Agreement which has been notified in writing to the Tenant and the Tenant has failed within a reasonable period of time to remedy the breach and/or pay reasonable compensation to the Landlord for the breach and/or

 any of the grounds set out as Grounds 2, 8 or Grounds 10-15 (inclusive) (which relate to breach of any obligation by a Tenant) contained in the Housing Act 1988 Schedule 2 apply, the Landlord may recover possession of the Property and this Agreement shall come to an end. The Landlord retains all his other rights in respect of the Tenant's obligations under this Agreement. Note that if anyone is living at the Property or if the tenancy is an assured or assured shorthold tenancy then the Landlord must obtain a court order for possession before re-entering the Property under the Housing Act 1988. This clause does not affect the Tenant’s rights under the Protection from Eviction Act 1977.

Read the whole thing again. You still need a court order because it is an assured shorthold tenancy. 

[Deleted User]

getmore4less said:

Introduction by the council.
Why were they involved?

What were the previous landlord references like?

This won't be the first time this has been done.

They used to have schemes where they pay rent dirvectly and lease a property from landlord. 

Now this scheme they place a tenant and pay a one off inxencitve.
There was no deposit or referencing. 

[Deleted User]

The LHA in the area is £1595.62 for a 4 bedroom which is what the monthly rent is.

The issue is the false infomation to get universal credit. When you have working adult children this has to be disclosed. She has 3 adult children living there but only disclosed 1.

Universal credit has dropped by more than half.

Her payment have been sanctioned and reduced. 

[Deleted User]

MaryNB said:

Zoe02 said:

GDB2222 said:

Zoe02 said:

canaldumidi said:

You have a choice.

* Be understanding and discuss/agree a payment plan and/or drop in the rent, or some other arrangement that will allow your tenant to remain, and manage, whilst you maximise your rent received, or

* Serve a S8, evict and re-advertise.

If the latter you could serve S8 (G10) immediately and leave it to the court's discretion, or wait till arrears are 2 months+ and serve S8 (G8) which leaves the court with no discretion.

Thank you for the response.

The rent has already dropped by £700 currently and not covering the mortgage, BG homecare, home insurance etc. when i found out about the drop in UC from £1200 to £500 she mumbled on the phone she informed the council she could not afford the property. I was in shock. 

Need to read more into S8 (G10) only been there for 2 months and forsee stress and problems because every month i am not at ease with the uncertainty if she will make payment or not.

I have been researchin online and they make it seems that the section 8 is not strong enough and section 21 is better but will be minimum 6 months says after 4 months and 2 months’ notice period.  Because the tenant has been dishonest disclosing wrong information to get a higher benefit when in reality she cannot afford the rent, although the working children should be contributing it seems she has no intention of been honet now. Will look more into S8 (G10) and S8 (G8) Thanks. 

You realise that serving the notice is just to start the process. You then have to issue court proceedings.

You cannot issue S21 to expire before the end of the fixed term of the tenancy.

Ok thanks.

The tenancy has a break clause that if rent is late by 14 days.not sure if this helps, idealy would have prefered to sort this out without the long court process but gut feeling telling me things might get even worse.

If at any time:- 

 any part of the Rent is outstanding for 14 days after becoming due (whether formally demanded or not) and/or 

 there is any breach, non-observance or non-performance by the Tenant of any covenant or other term of this Agreement which has been notified in writing to the Tenant and the Tenant has failed within a reasonable period of time to remedy the breach and/or pay reasonable compensation to the Landlord for the breach and/or

 any of the grounds set out as Grounds 2, 8 or Grounds 10-15 (inclusive) (which relate to breach of any obligation by a Tenant) contained in the Housing Act 1988 Schedule 2 apply, the Landlord may recover possession of the Property and this Agreement shall come to an end. The Landlord retains all his other rights in respect of the Tenant's obligations under this Agreement. Note that if anyone is living at the Property or if the tenancy is an assured or assured shorthold tenancy then the Landlord must obtain a court order for possession before re-entering the Property under the Housing Act 1988. This clause does not affect the Tenant’s rights under the Protection from Eviction Act 1977.

Read the whole thing again. You still need a court order because it is an assured shorthold tenancy. 

OK looks like will have to wait and see how things go. 

Section 8 not yet 2 months rent arrears. 

BraveJan