Section 21 Claim form for possession.

[Deleted User]

deannagone said:

Look at what HLA is for your area.  Depends where it is, but it might be that HLA levels (the max they will pay for monthly rent) won't begin to meet what you stated the rent is.  

I'm not sure that owing rent on its own is enough to create registration problems for the tenant.  You will have problems getting a criminal conviction.  The code the NMC produces (only a quick read) refers more to professional practice.  Not what happens if a professional has debt problems (otherwise anyone with a mortgage could be de-registered, CCJ's even aren't enough).  

Did you get references from a previous LL or did you just take the tenant on the basis of the referral from the local authority?

When she rambles, politely but calmly bring her back to 'finding a solution'. Keep dated notes of all conversations if she refuses to answer written forms of communication.  If she makes an agreement to pay rent arrears, write a letter detailing what was agreed.  Get proof of postage from the PO (free).  

She might be able to get a Discretionary Housing Payment.  Ask your local council about this.

The LHA in the area is £1595.62 for a 4 bedroom which is what the monthly rent is.

The issue is the false infomation to get universal credit. When you have working adult children this has to be disclosed. She has 3 adult children living there but only disclosed 1.

Universal credit have reduced payment byy more than half.

Her payment have been sanctioned and reduced. 

saajan_12

Zoe02 said:

saajan_12 said:

Zoe02 said:

Hi All,

I have a property let to a tenant which was introduced by the council. The tenant gets Universal credit payment and although the first payment was late with setting up UC eventually got paid after 2 weeks UC portion and tenant’s portion.

The  next month I contacted UC as the payment gets paid directly as I requested managed payment.

Monthly rent is £1600. It has now come to my attention that the tenant has disclose wrong information to UC, Therefore payment has been reduced from £1200 to £500 and tenant has only made payment of £400 meaning there is a shortfall of £700.

The tenant is a medical professional but works part time due to health  issues, has 3 grown children living with her but previously only revealed 1 grown child.

This is only month 2 of a 12 months AST tenancy.

Due to tenant providing false information to UC there has been a drop in benefit and when I informed tenant to chase up the shortfall she was in denial and said should be getting helped etc. informed me she would contact them but seems she know what she is doing and giving me false details.

Has anymore had similar experience? What does one do in such a situation?

You could send notice earlier under ground 10/11 only, but this is discretionary and may be denied if the judge is sympathetic to the tenant's benefits issues and gives them leeway. So I suggest: 

1. Send regular rent statements each month showing what is paid and what is outstanding. This could be in a monthly letter a few days after rent is due, politely asking for the arrears to be paid. This will show that you are working with the tenant on arrears not surprising them with notice. 
2. Once the arrears reach 2x monthly rent, then send a Section 8 notice stating ground  8+10+11. At this rate, if they continue underpaying by £700 then that'll be the day after month 6 rent is due. 
3. Upon notice expiry, apply to court for a possession order. 
4. Either this will get you a possession order from a judge or the tenant will pay down the arrears to keep it below 2 months. 

Separately on the UC front, you might want to ask the tenant if they want your help to provide evidence etc to get the UC increased, but up to you. 

The problem I am having is that the dishonesty, tenant was not pleased the truth has been found out. Without revealing too much has 3 grown kids aged 20-30 living with her and for benefit purpose only disclosed 1 child living with her. This is a 4 bedroom property.

1.      Will post the letter today or tomorrow, so will have proof. Rent was due 30/01 but because I contacted UC few days earlier realised there is a problem with UC payment amount.

2.      Duly noted, keeping fingers crossed tenant continues some payment otherwise 2 months arrears will come sooner.

3.      Hopefully goes smoothly

4.      Have read online that they play the system and know such and charities like shelter discourage them from leaving peacefully. - yes, well there's always a chance you've done something wrong with the paperwork and you have to start again with eviction, or they can pay just enough rent to keep the arrears under 2 months. All to buy some time and avoid eviction. 

The UC, basically tenant gave false information regarding her circumstance. she has 3 grown kids (benefit reduce with grown kids who are working) but only disclosed 1, they found 2 hence the drop but in reality there are 3 kids (likely 2 in employment 1 studying). she provided me ID copies of all the people residing in the property. Its a 4 bedroom 4 occupants but UC were only aware of 2 based on information tenant provided to them.

Going forward maybe the mistake i made was not including all the kids all over 18 in the tenancy agreement.   - yes, something to learn for the future. If you had more named tenants, you could chase any / all of them for the whole rent until you're paid in full. 

Don't focus on the dishonesty - that's a UC problem, but regarding the tenancy, its her home to invite any guests she likes. At best if your contract prohibits other adults, then its a breach of a contractual term for which you could sue in court for resulting losses.. but you're unlikely to have anything provable and even if you did, you'll never recover any money if she can't afford even the rent. Its not going to be a material enough breach to terminate the tenancy.  

Re playing games - when housing is scarce and a charity is just focussed on housing (not other financial implications or rising costs they are encouraging for the people are trying to help) then yes they will suggest everything to delay eviction. Your defence against that is just (a) being 100% on top of your paperwork and (b) you either get the eviction or rent arrears are effectively capped at 2 months. 

Yes, I agree, adding the other adults might have been better - that way you have more people you can chase for the rent. All of them would be jointly & severally liable for the whole rent, so you can chase anyone for all of it until you're paid in full. 

[Deleted User]

saajan_12 said:

Zoe02 said:

saajan_12 said:

Zoe02 said:

Hi All,

I have a property let to a tenant which was introduced by the council. The tenant gets Universal credit payment and although the first payment was late with setting up UC eventually got paid after 2 weeks UC portion and tenant’s portion.

The  next month I contacted UC as the payment gets paid directly as I requested managed payment.

Monthly rent is £1600. It has now come to my attention that the tenant has disclose wrong information to UC, Therefore payment has been reduced from £1200 to £500 and tenant has only made payment of £400 meaning there is a shortfall of £700.

The tenant is a medical professional but works part time due to health  issues, has 3 grown children living with her but previously only revealed 1 grown child.

This is only month 2 of a 12 months AST tenancy.

Due to tenant providing false information to UC there has been a drop in benefit and when I informed tenant to chase up the shortfall she was in denial and said should be getting helped etc. informed me she would contact them but seems she know what she is doing and giving me false details.

Has anymore had similar experience? What does one do in such a situation?

You could send notice earlier under ground 10/11 only, but this is discretionary and may be denied if the judge is sympathetic to the tenant's benefits issues and gives them leeway. So I suggest: 

1. Send regular rent statements each month showing what is paid and what is outstanding. This could be in a monthly letter a few days after rent is due, politely asking for the arrears to be paid. This will show that you are working with the tenant on arrears not surprising them with notice. 
2. Once the arrears reach 2x monthly rent, then send a Section 8 notice stating ground  8+10+11. At this rate, if they continue underpaying by £700 then that'll be the day after month 6 rent is due. 
3. Upon notice expiry, apply to court for a possession order. 
4. Either this will get you a possession order from a judge or the tenant will pay down the arrears to keep it below 2 months. 

Separately on the UC front, you might want to ask the tenant if they want your help to provide evidence etc to get the UC increased, but up to you. 

The problem I am having is that the dishonesty, tenant was not pleased the truth has been found out. Without revealing too much has 3 grown kids aged 20-30 living with her and for benefit purpose only disclosed 1 child living with her. This is a 4 bedroom property.

1.      Will post the letter today or tomorrow, so will have proof. Rent was due 30/01 but because I contacted UC few days earlier realised there is a problem with UC payment amount.

2.      Duly noted, keeping fingers crossed tenant continues some payment otherwise 2 months arrears will come sooner.

3.      Hopefully goes smoothly

4.      Have read online that they play the system and know such and charities like shelter discourage them from leaving peacefully. - yes, well there's always a chance you've done something wrong with the paperwork and you have to start again with eviction, or they can pay just enough rent to keep the arrears under 2 months. All to buy some time and avoid eviction. 

The UC, basically tenant gave false information regarding her circumstance. she has 3 grown kids (benefit reduce with grown kids who are working) but only disclosed 1, they found 2 hence the drop but in reality there are 3 kids (likely 2 in employment 1 studying). she provided me ID copies of all the people residing in the property. Its a 4 bedroom 4 occupants but UC were only aware of 2 based on information tenant provided to them.

Going forward maybe the mistake i made was not including all the kids all over 18 in the tenancy agreement.   - yes, something to learn for the future. If you had more named tenants, you could chase any / all of them for the whole rent until you're paid in full. 

Don't focus on the dishonesty - that's a UC problem, but regarding the tenancy, its her home to invite any guests she likes. At best if your contract prohibits other adults, then its a breach of a contractual term for which you could sue in court for resulting losses.. but you're unlikely to have anything provable and even if you did, you'll never recover any money if she can't afford even the rent. Its not going to be a material enough breach to terminate the tenancy.  

Re playing games - when housing is scarce and a charity is just focussed on housing (not other financial implications or rising costs they are encouraging for the people are trying to help) then yes they will suggest everything to delay eviction. Your defence against that is just (a) being 100% on top of your paperwork and (b) you either get the eviction or rent arrears are effectively capped at 2 months. 

Yes, I agree, adding the other adults might have been better - that way you have more people you can chase for the rent. All of them would be jointly & severally liable for the whole rent, so you can chase anyone for all of it until you're paid in full. 

Costly mistake not including all the adults over 18.

Shebprovided IDs of all the occupants. Herself and 3 adult children.

UC have said its a civil matter. 

Will await 2 months arrears and start the eviction process with section 8. 

canaldumidi

Zoe02 said:

saajan_12 said:

Zoe02 said:

saajan_12 said:

Zoe02 said:

Hi All,

I have a property let to a tenant which was introduced by the council. The tenant gets Universal credit payment and although the first payment was late with setting up UC eventually got paid after 2 weeks UC portion and tenant’s portion.

The  next month I contacted UC as the payment gets paid directly as I requested managed payment.

Monthly rent is £1600. It has now come to my attention that the tenant has disclose wrong information to UC, Therefore payment has been reduced from £1200 to £500 and tenant has only made payment of £400 meaning there is a shortfall of £700.

The tenant is a medical professional but works part time due to health  issues, has 3 grown children living with her but previously only revealed 1 grown child.

This is only month 2 of a 12 months AST tenancy.

Due to tenant providing false information to UC there has been a drop in benefit and when I informed tenant to chase up the shortfall she was in denial and said should be getting helped etc. informed me she would contact them but seems she know what she is doing and giving me false details.

Has anymore had similar experience? What does one do in such a situation?

You could send notice earlier under ground 10/11 only, but this is discretionary and may be denied if the judge is sympathetic to the tenant's benefits issues and gives them leeway. So I suggest: 

1. Send regular rent statements each month showing what is paid and what is outstanding. This could be in a monthly letter a few days after rent is due, politely asking for the arrears to be paid. This will show that you are working with the tenant on arrears not surprising them with notice. 
2. Once the arrears reach 2x monthly rent, then send a Section 8 notice stating ground  8+10+11. At this rate, if they continue underpaying by £700 then that'll be the day after month 6 rent is due. 
3. Upon notice expiry, apply to court for a possession order. 
4. Either this will get you a possession order from a judge or the tenant will pay down the arrears to keep it below 2 months. 

Separately on the UC front, you might want to ask the tenant if they want your help to provide evidence etc to get the UC increased, but up to you. 

The problem I am having is that the dishonesty, tenant was not pleased the truth has been found out. Without revealing too much has 3 grown kids aged 20-30 living with her and for benefit purpose only disclosed 1 child living with her. This is a 4 bedroom property.

1.      Will post the letter today or tomorrow, so will have proof. Rent was due 30/01 but because I contacted UC few days earlier realised there is a problem with UC payment amount.

2.      Duly noted, keeping fingers crossed tenant continues some payment otherwise 2 months arrears will come sooner.

3.      Hopefully goes smoothly

4.      Have read online that they play the system and know such and charities like shelter discourage them from leaving peacefully. - yes, well there's always a chance you've done something wrong with the paperwork and you have to start again with eviction, or they can pay just enough rent to keep the arrears under 2 months. All to buy some time and avoid eviction. 

The UC, basically tenant gave false information regarding her circumstance. she has 3 grown kids (benefit reduce with grown kids who are working) but only disclosed 1, they found 2 hence the drop but in reality there are 3 kids (likely 2 in employment 1 studying). she provided me ID copies of all the people residing in the property. Its a 4 bedroom 4 occupants but UC were only aware of 2 based on information tenant provided to them.

Going forward maybe the mistake i made was not including all the kids all over 18 in the tenancy agreement.   - yes, something to learn for the future. If you had more named tenants, you could chase any / all of them for the whole rent until you're paid in full. 

Don't focus on the dishonesty - that's a UC problem, but regarding the tenancy, its her home to invite any guests she likes. At best if your contract prohibits other adults, then its a breach of a contractual term for which you could sue in court for resulting losses.. but you're unlikely to have anything provable and even if you did, you'll never recover any money if she can't afford even the rent. Its not going to be a material enough breach to terminate the tenancy.  

Re playing games - when housing is scarce and a charity is just focussed on housing (not other financial implications or rising costs they are encouraging for the people are trying to help) then yes they will suggest everything to delay eviction. Your defence against that is just (a) being 100% on top of your paperwork and (b) you either get the eviction or rent arrears are effectively capped at 2 months. 

Yes, I agree, adding the other adults might have been better - that way you have more people you can chase for the rent. All of them would be jointly & severally liable for the whole rent, so you can chase anyone for all of it until you're paid in full. 

Will await 2 months arrears and start the eviction process with section 8. 

Be aware that if she pays enough rent on/before the court date to reduce the arrears to below 2 months, the S8 (G8) will fail, so serve both (G8) and (G10). Also (G11). Details of all grounds are here:

Schedule 2 (17 S8 Grounds a LL can use)

For information, a S21 cannot be served in the first 4 months, and cannot expire before the end of the fixed term unless in line with a Break Clause, or within the first 6 months.

Given the significant gaps in your knowledge I'm surprised you are not using a leting agent to help. Have you even joined a landlords asociation?

GDB2222

canaldumidi said:

Zoe02 said:

saajan_12 said:

Zoe02 said:

saajan_12 said:

Zoe02 said:

Hi All,

I have a property let to a tenant which was introduced by the council. The tenant gets Universal credit payment and although the first payment was late with setting up UC eventually got paid after 2 weeks UC portion and tenant’s portion.

The  next month I contacted UC as the payment gets paid directly as I requested managed payment.

Monthly rent is £1600. It has now come to my attention that the tenant has disclose wrong information to UC, Therefore payment has been reduced from £1200 to £500 and tenant has only made payment of £400 meaning there is a shortfall of £700.

The tenant is a medical professional but works part time due to health  issues, has 3 grown children living with her but previously only revealed 1 grown child.

This is only month 2 of a 12 months AST tenancy.

Due to tenant providing false information to UC there has been a drop in benefit and when I informed tenant to chase up the shortfall she was in denial and said should be getting helped etc. informed me she would contact them but seems she know what she is doing and giving me false details.

Has anymore had similar experience? What does one do in such a situation?

You could send notice earlier under ground 10/11 only, but this is discretionary and may be denied if the judge is sympathetic to the tenant's benefits issues and gives them leeway. So I suggest: 

1. Send regular rent statements each month showing what is paid and what is outstanding. This could be in a monthly letter a few days after rent is due, politely asking for the arrears to be paid. This will show that you are working with the tenant on arrears not surprising them with notice. 
2. Once the arrears reach 2x monthly rent, then send a Section 8 notice stating ground  8+10+11. At this rate, if they continue underpaying by £700 then that'll be the day after month 6 rent is due. 
3. Upon notice expiry, apply to court for a possession order. 
4. Either this will get you a possession order from a judge or the tenant will pay down the arrears to keep it below 2 months. 

Separately on the UC front, you might want to ask the tenant if they want your help to provide evidence etc to get the UC increased, but up to you. 

The problem I am having is that the dishonesty, tenant was not pleased the truth has been found out. Without revealing too much has 3 grown kids aged 20-30 living with her and for benefit purpose only disclosed 1 child living with her. This is a 4 bedroom property.

1.      Will post the letter today or tomorrow, so will have proof. Rent was due 30/01 but because I contacted UC few days earlier realised there is a problem with UC payment amount.

2.      Duly noted, keeping fingers crossed tenant continues some payment otherwise 2 months arrears will come sooner.

3.      Hopefully goes smoothly

4.      Have read online that they play the system and know such and charities like shelter discourage them from leaving peacefully. - yes, well there's always a chance you've done something wrong with the paperwork and you have to start again with eviction, or they can pay just enough rent to keep the arrears under 2 months. All to buy some time and avoid eviction. 

The UC, basically tenant gave false information regarding her circumstance. she has 3 grown kids (benefit reduce with grown kids who are working) but only disclosed 1, they found 2 hence the drop but in reality there are 3 kids (likely 2 in employment 1 studying). she provided me ID copies of all the people residing in the property. Its a 4 bedroom 4 occupants but UC were only aware of 2 based on information tenant provided to them.

Going forward maybe the mistake i made was not including all the kids all over 18 in the tenancy agreement.   - yes, something to learn for the future. If you had more named tenants, you could chase any / all of them for the whole rent until you're paid in full. 

Don't focus on the dishonesty - that's a UC problem, but regarding the tenancy, its her home to invite any guests she likes. At best if your contract prohibits other adults, then its a breach of a contractual term for which you could sue in court for resulting losses.. but you're unlikely to have anything provable and even if you did, you'll never recover any money if she can't afford even the rent. Its not going to be a material enough breach to terminate the tenancy.  

Re playing games - when housing is scarce and a charity is just focussed on housing (not other financial implications or rising costs they are encouraging for the people are trying to help) then yes they will suggest everything to delay eviction. Your defence against that is just (a) being 100% on top of your paperwork and (b) you either get the eviction or rent arrears are effectively capped at 2 months. 

Yes, I agree, adding the other adults might have been better - that way you have more people you can chase for the rent. All of them would be jointly & severally liable for the whole rent, so you can chase anyone for all of it until you're paid in full. 

Will await 2 months arrears and start the eviction process with section 8. 

Be aware that if she pays enough rent on/before the court date to reduce the arrears to below 2 months, the S8 (G8) will fail, so serve both (G8) and (G10). Also (G11). Details of all grounds are here:

Schedule 2 (17 S8 Grounds a LL can use)

For information, a S21 cannot be served in the first 4 months, and cannot expire before the end of the fixed term unless in line with a Break Clause, or within the first 6 months.

Given the significant gaps in your knowledge I'm surprised you are not using a leting agent to help. Have you even joined a landlords asociation?

I agree that the OP should get a solicitor to issue the notice and start court proceedings. There are firms who specialise in this sort of landlord/tenant work and have it down to a fine art.  Yes, it's an extra cost, but worth it IMHO.

[Deleted User]

deannagone said:

Look at what HLA is for your area.  Depends where it is, but it might be that HLA levels (the max they will pay for monthly rent) won't begin to meet what you stated the rent is. 

I'm not sure that owing rent on its own is enough to create registration problems for the tenant.  You will have problems getting a criminal conviction.  The code the NMC produces (only a quick read) refers more to professional practice.  Not what happens if a professional has debt problems (otherwise anyone with a mortgage could be de-registered, CCJ's even aren't enough).  

Did you get references from a previous LL or did you just take the tenant on the basis of the referral from the local authority?

When she rambles, politely but calmly bring her back to 'finding a solution'. Keep dated notes of all conversations if she refuses to answer written forms of communication.  If she makes an agreement to pay rent arrears, write a letter detailing what was agreed.  Get proof of postage from the PO (free).  

She might be able to get a Discretionary Housing Payment.  Ask your local council about this.

Upon reflection, one of the reasons I rented the property to this tenant is because she is a professional on the NMC register.

She held a professional role hence trusted her.

The issue here is not just owing rent, the issue is benefit fraud. Purposefully giving wrong information to get higher benefit amount is fraud.
This is not a debt problem but dishonesty (I have copied of 4 IDs of all the occupants of the property in order to get more benefit payment disclosed only 1 adult child living with her, this is a 4 bedroom property. UC have seen high income coming hence hence the drop in benefit from £1200 to £500)

The stages further would be reporting benefit fraud and reporting to the NMC because I am sure I am not the first person she has done this to.

If such people are left alone they continue such behaviour.

[Deleted User]

canaldumidi said:

Zoe02 said:

saajan_12 said:

Zoe02 said:

saajan_12 said:

Zoe02 said:

Hi All,

I have a property let to a tenant which was introduced by the council. The tenant gets Universal credit payment and although the first payment was late with setting up UC eventually got paid after 2 weeks UC portion and tenant’s portion.

The  next month I contacted UC as the payment gets paid directly as I requested managed payment.

Monthly rent is £1600. It has now come to my attention that the tenant has disclose wrong information to UC, Therefore payment has been reduced from £1200 to £500 and tenant has only made payment of £400 meaning there is a shortfall of £700.

The tenant is a medical professional but works part time due to health  issues, has 3 grown children living with her but previously only revealed 1 grown child.

This is only month 2 of a 12 months AST tenancy.

Due to tenant providing false information to UC there has been a drop in benefit and when I informed tenant to chase up the shortfall she was in denial and said should be getting helped etc. informed me she would contact them but seems she know what she is doing and giving me false details.

Has anymore had similar experience? What does one do in such a situation?

You could send notice earlier under ground 10/11 only, but this is discretionary and may be denied if the judge is sympathetic to the tenant's benefits issues and gives them leeway. So I suggest: 

1. Send regular rent statements each month showing what is paid and what is outstanding. This could be in a monthly letter a few days after rent is due, politely asking for the arrears to be paid. This will show that you are working with the tenant on arrears not surprising them with notice. 
2. Once the arrears reach 2x monthly rent, then send a Section 8 notice stating ground  8+10+11. At this rate, if they continue underpaying by £700 then that'll be the day after month 6 rent is due. 
3. Upon notice expiry, apply to court for a possession order. 
4. Either this will get you a possession order from a judge or the tenant will pay down the arrears to keep it below 2 months. 

Separately on the UC front, you might want to ask the tenant if they want your help to provide evidence etc to get the UC increased, but up to you. 

The problem I am having is that the dishonesty, tenant was not pleased the truth has been found out. Without revealing too much has 3 grown kids aged 20-30 living with her and for benefit purpose only disclosed 1 child living with her. This is a 4 bedroom property.

1.      Will post the letter today or tomorrow, so will have proof. Rent was due 30/01 but because I contacted UC few days earlier realised there is a problem with UC payment amount.

2.      Duly noted, keeping fingers crossed tenant continues some payment otherwise 2 months arrears will come sooner.

3.      Hopefully goes smoothly

4.      Have read online that they play the system and know such and charities like shelter discourage them from leaving peacefully. - yes, well there's always a chance you've done something wrong with the paperwork and you have to start again with eviction, or they can pay just enough rent to keep the arrears under 2 months. All to buy some time and avoid eviction. 

The UC, basically tenant gave false information regarding her circumstance. she has 3 grown kids (benefit reduce with grown kids who are working) but only disclosed 1, they found 2 hence the drop but in reality there are 3 kids (likely 2 in employment 1 studying). she provided me ID copies of all the people residing in the property. Its a 4 bedroom 4 occupants but UC were only aware of 2 based on information tenant provided to them.

Going forward maybe the mistake i made was not including all the kids all over 18 in the tenancy agreement.   - yes, something to learn for the future. If you had more named tenants, you could chase any / all of them for the whole rent until you're paid in full. 

Don't focus on the dishonesty - that's a UC problem, but regarding the tenancy, its her home to invite any guests she likes. At best if your contract prohibits other adults, then its a breach of a contractual term for which you could sue in court for resulting losses.. but you're unlikely to have anything provable and even if you did, you'll never recover any money if she can't afford even the rent. Its not going to be a material enough breach to terminate the tenancy.  

Re playing games - when housing is scarce and a charity is just focussed on housing (not other financial implications or rising costs they are encouraging for the people are trying to help) then yes they will suggest everything to delay eviction. Your defence against that is just (a) being 100% on top of your paperwork and (b) you either get the eviction or rent arrears are effectively capped at 2 months. 

Yes, I agree, adding the other adults might have been better - that way you have more people you can chase for the rent. All of them would be jointly & severally liable for the whole rent, so you can chase anyone for all of it until you're paid in full. 

Will await 2 months arrears and start the eviction process with section 8. 

Be aware that if she pays enough rent on/before the court date to reduce the arrears to below 2 months, the S8 (G8) will fail, so serve both (G8) and (G10). Also (G11). Details of all grounds are here :schedule 2 (17 S8 Grounds a LL can use)

For information, a S21 cannot be served in the first 4 months, and cannot expire before the end of the fixed term unless in line with a Break Clause, or within the first 6 months.

Given the significant gaps in your knowledge I'm surprised you are not using a leting agent to help. Have you even joined a landlords asociation?

I have never had such issue in the past, I have always managed my property but going forward will consider using a letting agent.

I am aware that the equivalent of 2 months rent would need to be due before the process, and also many tenant's  trick to keep the payment owed below 2 months. 

Will do thanks  (G8) (G10) and (G11)

Will look into joining a landlord association.

I have had this property for many years and have never had such issues. 

diggingdude

Sadly this is a reason why the "no DSS" attitude still applies to renting. Hope you get rid of her as soon as possible 

[Deleted User]

GDB2222 said:

canaldumidi said:

Zoe02 said:

saajan_12 said:

Zoe02 said:

saajan_12 said:

Zoe02 said:

Hi All,

I have a property let to a tenant which was introduced by the council. The tenant gets Universal credit payment and although the first payment was late with setting up UC eventually got paid after 2 weeks UC portion and tenant’s portion.

The  next month I contacted UC as the payment gets paid directly as I requested managed payment.

Monthly rent is £1600. It has now come to my attention that the tenant has disclose wrong information to UC, Therefore payment has been reduced from £1200 to £500 and tenant has only made payment of £400 meaning there is a shortfall of £700.

The tenant is a medical professional but works part time due to health  issues, has 3 grown children living with her but previously only revealed 1 grown child.

This is only month 2 of a 12 months AST tenancy.

Due to tenant providing false information to UC there has been a drop in benefit and when I informed tenant to chase up the shortfall she was in denial and said should be getting helped etc. informed me she would contact them but seems she know what she is doing and giving me false details.

Has anymore had similar experience? What does one do in such a situation?

You could send notice earlier under ground 10/11 only, but this is discretionary and may be denied if the judge is sympathetic to the tenant's benefits issues and gives them leeway. So I suggest: 

1. Send regular rent statements each month showing what is paid and what is outstanding. This could be in a monthly letter a few days after rent is due, politely asking for the arrears to be paid. This will show that you are working with the tenant on arrears not surprising them with notice. 
2. Once the arrears reach 2x monthly rent, then send a Section 8 notice stating ground  8+10+11. At this rate, if they continue underpaying by £700 then that'll be the day after month 6 rent is due. 
3. Upon notice expiry, apply to court for a possession order. 
4. Either this will get you a possession order from a judge or the tenant will pay down the arrears to keep it below 2 months. 

Separately on the UC front, you might want to ask the tenant if they want your help to provide evidence etc to get the UC increased, but up to you. 

The problem I am having is that the dishonesty, tenant was not pleased the truth has been found out. Without revealing too much has 3 grown kids aged 20-30 living with her and for benefit purpose only disclosed 1 child living with her. This is a 4 bedroom property.

1.      Will post the letter today or tomorrow, so will have proof. Rent was due 30/01 but because I contacted UC few days earlier realised there is a problem with UC payment amount.

2.      Duly noted, keeping fingers crossed tenant continues some payment otherwise 2 months arrears will come sooner.

3.      Hopefully goes smoothly

4.      Have read online that they play the system and know such and charities like shelter discourage them from leaving peacefully. - yes, well there's always a chance you've done something wrong with the paperwork and you have to start again with eviction, or they can pay just enough rent to keep the arrears under 2 months. All to buy some time and avoid eviction. 

The UC, basically tenant gave false information regarding her circumstance. she has 3 grown kids (benefit reduce with grown kids who are working) but only disclosed 1, they found 2 hence the drop but in reality there are 3 kids (likely 2 in employment 1 studying). she provided me ID copies of all the people residing in the property. Its a 4 bedroom 4 occupants but UC were only aware of 2 based on information tenant provided to them.

Going forward maybe the mistake i made was not including all the kids all over 18 in the tenancy agreement.   - yes, something to learn for the future. If you had more named tenants, you could chase any / all of them for the whole rent until you're paid in full. 

Don't focus on the dishonesty - that's a UC problem, but regarding the tenancy, its her home to invite any guests she likes. At best if your contract prohibits other adults, then its a breach of a contractual term for which you could sue in court for resulting losses.. but you're unlikely to have anything provable and even if you did, you'll never recover any money if she can't afford even the rent. Its not going to be a material enough breach to terminate the tenancy.  

Re playing games - when housing is scarce and a charity is just focussed on housing (not other financial implications or rising costs they are encouraging for the people are trying to help) then yes they will suggest everything to delay eviction. Your defence against that is just (a) being 100% on top of your paperwork and (b) you either get the eviction or rent arrears are effectively capped at 2 months. 

Yes, I agree, adding the other adults might have been better - that way you have more people you can chase for the rent. All of them would be jointly & severally liable for the whole rent, so you can chase anyone for all of it until you're paid in full. 

Will await 2 months arrears and start the eviction process with section 8. 

Be aware that if she pays enough rent on/before the court date to reduce the arrears to below 2 months, the S8 (G8) will fail, so serve both (G8) and (G10). Also (G11). Details of all grounds are here:

Schedule 2 (17 S8 Grounds a LL can use)

For information, a S21 cannot be served in the first 4 months, and cannot expire before the end of the fixed term unless in line with a Break Clause, or within the first 6 months.

Given the significant gaps in your knowledge I'm surprised you are not using a leting agent to help. Have you even joined a landlords asociation?

I agree that the OP should get a solicitor to issue the notice and start court proceedings. There are firms who specialise in this sort of landlord/tenant work and have it down to a fine art.  Yes, it's an extra cost, but worth it IMHO.

I will get a specialist firm to assist me with this process.

Will be sending an email and letter (getting proof of postage from post office) tomorrow to the tenant so I have formal proof rather than text message I was previously sending.

I am somewhat knowledgeable but sometimes emotions can get in the way, Will have to be smart about it and get on with things logically. 

Ground 8

Both at the date of the service of the notice under section 8 of this Act relating to the proceedings for possession and at the date of the hearing—

(b)if rent is payable monthly, at least [two months’] rent is unpaid;

Ground 10

Some rent lawfully due from the tenant—

(a)is unpaid on the date on which the proceedings for possession are begun; and

(b)except where subsection (1)(b) of section 8 of this Act applies, was in arrears at the date of the service of the notice under that section relating to those proceedings.

Ground 11

Whether or not any rent is in arrears on the date on which proceedings for possession are begun, the tenant has persistently delayed paying rent which has become lawfully due.

[Deleted User]

diggingdude said:

Sadly this is a reason why the "no DSS" attitude still applies to renting. Hope you get rid of her as soon as possible 

I agree and once I am free from this never again.