Royal Mail barcoding stamps - existing stamps valid only until 31 Jan 2023

GDB2222

HonestJohn said:

RM can do what they want. They will not return the so called fakes. They are judge, jury and executioner. LIke they don't make mistakes.

You try changing a fake banknote at a bank. Not only will they keep it, but they may well call the police. 

My impression is that the RM employees dealing with this are very meticulous.  It's unlikely they are wrong.

I think you should simply accept that you bought fakes, and you have been tumbled. If you bought them in good faith, paying full price, you still bought fakes, but I am sorry for you.

If you bought an obvious fake on ebay, paying flumpence in the pound and hoping to defraud RM, you have only yourself to blame.

CP42

Would have bought them from either Tesco, CoOp or McColl's. I sent all the 1st class ones first & all were replaced. Then sent all the 2nd class ones which is when this problem began. I would have bought all the stamps from the same shops. Usually I would bulk-buy several booklets just before the prices went up end March/beginning April.  At the time my husband was self employed & I had to send out estimates & bills after work done which is why I had so many. His business ended with the Covid lockdowns so we're left with lots of stamps. I am really annoyed about this! Who can afford to lose £45-worth of stamps in the current financial situation?

HonestJohn

GDB2222 said:

HonestJohn said:

RM can do what they want. They will not return the so called fakes. They are judge, jury and executioner. LIke they don't make mistakes.

You try changing a fake banknote at a bank. Not only will they keep it, but they may well call the police. 

My impression is that the RM employees dealing with this are very meticulous.  It's unlikely they are wrong.

I think you should simply accept that you bought fakes, and you have been tumbled. If you bought them in good faith, paying full price, you still bought fakes, but I am sorry for you.

If you bought an obvious fake on ebay, paying flumpence in the pound and hoping to defraud RM, you have only yourself to blame.

I think they should have a duty to explain their decision. I had a book declined that I had thoroughly checked. I would like to know where I went wrong. They also got their sums wrong for the 'legal' stamps I returned. Not very meticulous then. I am not alone.

GDB2222

HonestJohn said:

GDB2222 said:

HonestJohn said:

RM can do what they want. They will not return the so called fakes. They are judge, jury and executioner. LIke they don't make mistakes.

You try changing a fake banknote at a bank. Not only will they keep it, but they may well call the police. 

My impression is that the RM employees dealing with this are very meticulous.  It's unlikely they are wrong.

I think you should simply accept that you bought fakes, and you have been tumbled. If you bought them in good faith, paying full price, you still bought fakes, but I am sorry for you.

If you bought an obvious fake on ebay, paying flumpence in the pound and hoping to defraud RM, you have only yourself to blame.

I think they should have a duty to explain their decision. I had a book declined that I had thoroughly checked. I would like to know where I went wrong. They also got their sums wrong for the 'legal' stamps I returned. Not very meticulous then. I am not alone.

 " I had a book declined that I had thoroughly checked."   - What did you do to check it? You examined it under UV light, obviously. But what have you been trained to look for?

Presumably, you have a photo of the UV scan, so can you post that please?

GDB2222

CP42 said:

Would have bought them from either Tesco, CoOp or McColl's. I sent all the 1st class ones first & all were replaced. Then sent all the 2nd class ones which is when this problem began. I would have bought all the stamps from the same shops. Usually I would bulk-buy several booklets just before the prices went up end March/beginning April.  At the time my husband was self employed & I had to send out estimates & bills after work done which is why I had so many. His business ended with the Covid lockdowns so we're left with lots of stamps. I am really annoyed about this! Who can afford to lose £45-worth of stamps in the current financial situation?

I sympathise, but the people you need to complain to are those who sold you the fakes.

After I closed my business, I counted up all the stamps, and I have hundreds of pounds worth to use up. As ebay is flooded with fakes, I can't sell my genuine ones there for more than a few ££.

HonestJohn

GDB2222 said:

HonestJohn said:

GDB2222 said:

HonestJohn said:

RM can do what they want. They will not return the so called fakes. They are judge, jury and executioner. LIke they don't make mistakes.

You try changing a fake banknote at a bank. Not only will they keep it, but they may well call the police. 

My impression is that the RM employees dealing with this are very meticulous.  It's unlikely they are wrong.

I think you should simply accept that you bought fakes, and you have been tumbled. If you bought them in good faith, paying full price, you still bought fakes, but I am sorry for you.

If you bought an obvious fake on ebay, paying flumpence in the pound and hoping to defraud RM, you have only yourself to blame.

I think they should have a duty to explain their decision. I had a book declined that I had thoroughly checked. I would like to know where I went wrong. They also got their sums wrong for the 'legal' stamps I returned. Not very meticulous then. I am not alone.

 " I had a book declined that I had thoroughly checked."   - What did you do to check it? You examined it under UV light, obviously. But what have you been trained to look for?

Presumably, you have a photo of the UV scan, so can you post that please?

I checked under a UV light. I compared the perforations and watermarks with other stamps. Also the booklet has a security code pattern which checked out okay. You obvoiusly have an issue that you can't sell your stamps but you surely can't agree that RM are above the law. Looked what happened with the PO and Horizon.

Money_Grabber13579

I can see it from both angles. From the consumer’s perspective, it only seems fair that they are told why their stamps are being rejected. However, if Royal Mail explain why stamps are being rejected, they potentially tip off the manufacturers of the fake stamps as to what they need to change in the production of future fakes. Perhaps a right of appeal to an independent adjudicator would be the fairest solution to all parties, but I can’t see that happening, not least because of the costs involved.

GDB2222

HonestJohn said:

GDB2222 said:

HonestJohn said:

GDB2222 said:

HonestJohn said:

RM can do what they want. They will not return the so called fakes. They are judge, jury and executioner. LIke they don't make mistakes.

You try changing a fake banknote at a bank. Not only will they keep it, but they may well call the police. 

My impression is that the RM employees dealing with this are very meticulous.  It's unlikely they are wrong.

I think you should simply accept that you bought fakes, and you have been tumbled. If you bought them in good faith, paying full price, you still bought fakes, but I am sorry for you.

If you bought an obvious fake on ebay, paying flumpence in the pound and hoping to defraud RM, you have only yourself to blame.

I think they should have a duty to explain their decision. I had a book declined that I had thoroughly checked. I would like to know where I went wrong. They also got their sums wrong for the 'legal' stamps I returned. Not very meticulous then. I am not alone.

 " I had a book declined that I had thoroughly checked."   - What did you do to check it? You examined it under UV light, obviously. But what have you been trained to look for?

Presumably, you have a photo of the UV scan, so can you post that please?

I checked under a UV light. I compared the perforations and watermarks with other stamps. Also the booklet has a security code pattern which checked out okay. You obvoiusly have an issue that you can't sell your stamps but you surely can't agree that RM are above the law. Looked what happened with the PO and Horizon.

Have you been trained in detecting fake stamps? It's also rather strange that you examined these stamps so carefully - almost as if you suspected something was wrong with them. 

I agree that RM are not above the law, but neither are you. You can't expect to have fake stamps returned. Have you asked RM whether you can send your own expert to examine the stamps at the RM office? I doubt many people would want to do that, though, because of the cost. 

Money_Grabber13579

HonestJohn said:

GDB2222 said:

HonestJohn said:

GDB2222 said:

HonestJohn said:

RM can do what they want. They will not return the so called fakes. They are judge, jury and executioner. LIke they don't make mistakes.

You try changing a fake banknote at a bank. Not only will they keep it, but they may well call the police. 

My impression is that the RM employees dealing with this are very meticulous.  It's unlikely they are wrong.

I think you should simply accept that you bought fakes, and you have been tumbled. If you bought them in good faith, paying full price, you still bought fakes, but I am sorry for you.

If you bought an obvious fake on ebay, paying flumpence in the pound and hoping to defraud RM, you have only yourself to blame.

I think they should have a duty to explain their decision. I had a book declined that I had thoroughly checked. I would like to know where I went wrong. They also got their sums wrong for the 'legal' stamps I returned. Not very meticulous then. I am not alone.

 " I had a book declined that I had thoroughly checked."   - What did you do to check it? You examined it under UV light, obviously. But what have you been trained to look for?

Presumably, you have a photo of the UV scan, so can you post that please?

I checked under a UV light. I compared the perforations and watermarks with other stamps. Also the booklet has a security code pattern which checked out okay. You obvoiusly have an issue that you can't sell your stamps but you surely can't agree that RM are above the law. Looked what happened with the PO and Horizon.

What about the source and year codes printed on the stamps themselves? Did they match what would have been expected? For example, if the source code said MEIL and you sent in a book of 4 stamps, that would have been flagged as fakes.

Also, comparing the perforations and watermarks (presume you mean phosphor) to other stamps won’t be conclusive - some are specific to the class/type of stamp and if they are inconsistent with the class of stamp, that will be a flag.

some of the security features are pretty sophisticated (even before the addition of bar codes) and would require detailed knowledge and perhaps specialist tools to confirm that everything was as it should be. I don’t know if you have that knowledge or tools but if you do, I’d be submitting your evidence to Royal Mail to demonstrate that all of the security features did indeed check out.

HonestJohn

I checked my stamps because I had heard of other's experiences and did some research. I am no expert so could only go so far. I don't think it is too much to ask for my stamps back. They could cancel them somehow. How do I accuse the seller of fraud without the evidence. I could imagine the furore if the Bank of England issued coins and notes with telling you how to identify fakes. The whole sorting machine industry would be non existent.