Royal Mail barcoding stamps - existing stamps valid only until 31 Jan 2023

BooJewels

Thank you @Money_Grabber13579 - I must lead a sheltered life as I'd never seen ungummed/previously used stamps for sale. If they're chemically removing franking marks so that they can deliberately be re-sold and used, then that's clearly not on.  I didn't even know that was possible.  I've never knowingly seen forgeries for sale, but only because I've never looked - it would never occur to me to buy stamps on eBay.

I figured it must be a big problem to take these new measures, as with replacing stamps and the new technology etc, it will be a costly solution.

Money_Grabber13579

BooJewels said:

Thank you @Money_Grabber13579 - I must lead a sheltered life as I'd never seen ungummed/previously used stamps for sale. If they're chemically removing franking marks so that they can deliberately be re-sold and used, then that's clearly not on.  I didn't even know that was possible.  I've never knowingly seen forgeries for sale, but only because I've never looked - it would never occur to me to buy stamps on eBay.

I figured it must be a big problem to take these new measures, as with replacing stamps and the new technology etc, it will be a costly solution.

Here are some fakes which I found from a quick search on eBay:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275194625328?hash=item4012e0bd30:g:Wm4AAOSwW69iIm9f

How do I know they are fake? There is no text on the backing paper, there doesn’t seem to be any security text in the background of the stamp itself, they are too cheap (despite apparently being new) but the biggest giveaway in this particular case is that the elliptical perforation (the large indent on each side of the stamp) is just wrong - compare it to a real stamp and you’ll see that it is a different shape. But 49 people have still apparently fallen victim to this scammer.

There are loads of listings on eBay like this and also for reused stamps (see link below) so it is huge business for these crooks.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334329532661?hash=item4dd797d0f5:g:bxoAAOSw6ShZOnY7

BooJewels

Good grief - there are dozens of them - and they're all selling in big numbers too.  With the first one you linked, you'd think it would be worth their while to at least buy some genuine stamps to photograph - as they're clearly not for real - as you say, no security printing and without the security cut-outs - they would be visible in a sheet of that many.  And you'd have to know you're buying fakes (or at best stolen items) at those prices - so the buyers have to take some responsibility too.

Will the new measures even stop them though?  Because the person that will fall foul of the scam will be the first recipient with an excess fee and the missing postage to pay for.  It might stop repeat business and get them closed down, but as we know, fraudulent sellers pop back up quicker than weeds in a wet summer.

It might slow them down, but I bet it doesn't eliminate it.  All you do is buy time until they find a new way to circumvent it.

NBLondon

Money_Grabber13579 said:

There are loads of listings on eBay like this and also for reused stamps (see link below) so it is huge business for these crooks.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334329532661?hash=item4dd797d0f5:g:bxoAAOSw6ShZOnY7

A quick read of that second listing includes the words: "good quality for collectors purpose only "  and " Please note these have been through the postage system and not for there primary use"   so if the buyer uses them for postage they are knowingly defrauding RM.    In theory - a collector is buying the job lot in the hope of finding a rare variant to complete a set.   In reality - we both know that a lot will end up being re-used...

Money_Grabber13579

BooJewels said:

Good grief - there are dozens of them - and they're all selling in big numbers too.  With the first one you linked, you'd think it would be worth their while to at least buy some genuine stamps to photograph - as they're clearly not for real - as you say, no security printing and without the security cut-outs - they would be visible in a sheet of that many.  And you'd have to know you're buying fakes (or at best stolen items) at those prices - so the buyers have to take some responsibility too.

Will the new measures even stop them though?  Because the person that will fall foul of the scam will be the first recipient with an excess fee and the missing postage to pay for.  It might stop repeat business and get them closed down, but as we know, fraudulent sellers pop back up quicker than weeds in a wet summer.

It might slow them down, but I bet it doesn't eliminate it.  All you do is buy time until they find a new way to circumvent it.

I think that’s the real problem - the people who will suffer are the recipients of any letters when they had no influence over whether forged or reused stamps were used. Whether it stops them being bought in the first place, remains to be seen…

petersy

A few years ago I had to pay the postage on a package delivered to me because Royal Mail said the stamp on the package was a fake.

On examination, under a magnifier, the Queen's head was blurred around the edges and the best giveaway was that the stamp smelled of printing solvent, which genuine Royal Mail stamps do not.

molerat

Money_Grabber13579 said:

BooJewels said:

Thank you @Money_Grabber13579 - I must lead a sheltered life as I'd never seen ungummed/previously used stamps for sale. If they're chemically removing franking marks so that they can deliberately be re-sold and used, then that's clearly not on.  I didn't even know that was possible.  I've never knowingly seen forgeries for sale, but only because I've never looked - it would never occur to me to buy stamps on eBay.

I figured it must be a big problem to take these new measures, as with replacing stamps and the new technology etc, it will be a costly solution.

Here are some fakes which I found from a quick search on eBay:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275194625328?hash=item4012e0bd30:g:Wm4AAOSwW69iIm9f

How do I know they are fake? There is no text on the backing paper, there doesn’t seem to be any security text in the background of the stamp itself, they are too cheap (despite apparently being new) but the biggest giveaway in this particular case is that the elliptical perforation (the large indent on each side of the stamp) is just wrong - compare it to a real stamp and you’ll see that it is a different shape. But 49 people have still apparently fallen victim to this scammer.

There are loads of listings on eBay like this and also for reused stamps (see link below) so it is huge business for these crooks.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334329532661?hash=item4dd797d0f5:g:bxoAAOSw6ShZOnY7

I thought the biggest give away was the disclaimer in the text admitting they are not genuine.

For Collecting, Philatelic, Decoupage and Crafting purposes only.

Reproduction for Stamp Collector to study more about stamps running comparison analysis and Crafting Stamp Projects in General, Decoupage.

DISCLAIMER - These stamps are NOT Genuine, and should NOT be used for postage. These are Replicas/Reproduction Stamps with Philatelic Collecting as solely purpose of use.

Can't see how Ebay let them get away with it.

Money_Grabber13579

NBLondon said:

Money_Grabber13579 said:

There are loads of listings on eBay like this and also for reused stamps (see link below) so it is huge business for these crooks.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334329532661?hash=item4dd797d0f5:g:bxoAAOSw6ShZOnY7

A quick read of that second listing includes the words: "good quality for collectors purpose only "  and " Please note these have been through the postage system and not for there primary use"   so if the buyer uses them for postage they are knowingly defrauding RM.    In theory - a collector is buying the job lot in the hope of finding a rare variant to complete a set.   In reality - we both know that a lot will end up being re-used...

All such listings include that wording as they seem to hope it protects them legally (whether it does or not, I don’t know). However, if someone feels the need to include that wording, it seems (to me) that they genuinely expect the stamps to be reused, whereas someone selling to a collector wouldn’t include that wording as it would otherwise be clear that they aren’t going to be reused (for a start, collectors of used stamps prefer them to have a clear, circular postmark). Anyone buying them for reuse is, of course, guilty too.

Money_Grabber13579

molerat said:

Money_Grabber13579 said:

BooJewels said:

Thank you @Money_Grabber13579 - I must lead a sheltered life as I'd never seen ungummed/previously used stamps for sale. If they're chemically removing franking marks so that they can deliberately be re-sold and used, then that's clearly not on.  I didn't even know that was possible.  I've never knowingly seen forgeries for sale, but only because I've never looked - it would never occur to me to buy stamps on eBay.

I figured it must be a big problem to take these new measures, as with replacing stamps and the new technology etc, it will be a costly solution.

Here are some fakes which I found from a quick search on eBay:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275194625328?hash=item4012e0bd30:g:Wm4AAOSwW69iIm9f

How do I know they are fake? There is no text on the backing paper, there doesn’t seem to be any security text in the background of the stamp itself, they are too cheap (despite apparently being new) but the biggest giveaway in this particular case is that the elliptical perforation (the large indent on each side of the stamp) is just wrong - compare it to a real stamp and you’ll see that it is a different shape. But 49 people have still apparently fallen victim to this scammer.

There are loads of listings on eBay like this and also for reused stamps (see link below) so it is huge business for these crooks.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334329532661?hash=item4dd797d0f5:g:bxoAAOSw6ShZOnY7

I thought the biggest give away was the disclaimer in the text admitting they are not genuine.

For Collecting, Philatelic, Decoupage and Crafting purposes only.

Reproduction for Stamp Collector to study more about stamps running comparison analysis and Crafting Stamp Projects in General, Decoupage.

DISCLAIMER - These stamps are NOT Genuine, and should NOT be used for postage. These are Replicas/Reproduction Stamps with Philatelic Collecting as solely purpose of use.

Can't see how Ebay let them get away with it.

Oops! I didn’t look at the description on that one! Many of the fakes don’t have that wording though and it’s pointless anyway because no collector is going to be interested in buying fake stamps to stick in an album - if they were, they might as well print them themselves! 

NBLondon

Money_Grabber13579 said:

All such listings include that wording as they seem to hope it protects them legally (whether it does or not, I don’t know). However, if someone feels the need to include that wording, it seems (to me) that they genuinely expect the stamps to be reused, whereas someone selling to a collector wouldn’t include that wording as it would otherwise be clear that they aren’t going to be reused (for a start, collectors of used stamps prefer them to have a clear, circular postmark). Anyone buying them for reuse is, of course, guilty too.

As far as I know it isn't illegal to sell used stamps when you are stating they are used so it protects them from accusations of selling them for re-use.  But yes - they almost certainly expect the stamps to be re-used.

Most collectors do want a clear postmark on a postally used stamp.  Some might want them for a craft project.  

Money_Grabber13579 said:

Oops! I didn’t look at the description on that one! Many of the fakes don’t have that wording though and it’s pointless anyway because no collector is going to be interested in buying fake stamps to stick in an album - if they were, they might as well print them themselves! 

Some collectors do want examples of known fakes to go in their collection.  But they wouldn't buy a sheet of them; they'd want one which had been postally used (and not detected) as an example.

Anyway, it appears that eBay have a policy on counterfeit and "replica" stamps; https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/stamps-policy?id=5043