SIL who helped herself to my mother's possessions

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Missing items from house.

alicef

I have to echo the comments from Pennylane & lisyloo.  I have experience of one of my SIL who helped herself to my  mother's possessions; male siblings, who as LPA for finance, have distributed my mums funds whilst she is still living...possibly impacting payment of her care home fees. (my mum is self funding).

The chances of anyone being held accountable for this, in my humble opinion, is negligible.

lisyloo

alicef said:

I have to echo the comments from Pennylane & lisyloo.  I have experience of one of my SIL who helped herself to my  mother's possessions; male siblings, who as LPA for finance, have distributed my mums funds whilst she is still living...possibly impacting payment of her care home fees. (my mum is self funding).

The chances of anyone being held accountable for this, in my humble opinion, is negligible.

The local authority may be interesting depending on the extent and how obvious it is.
when I as a deputy under court of protection I had to account for every penny quite literally.

alicef

lisyloo said:

alicef said:

I have to echo the comments from Pennylane & lisyloo.  I have experience of one of my SIL who helped herself to my  mother's possessions; male siblings, who as LPA for finance, have distributed my mums funds whilst she is still living...possibly impacting payment of her care home fees. (my mum is self funding).

The chances of anyone being held accountable for this, in my humble opinion, is negligible.

The local authority may be interesting depending on the extent and how obvious it is.
when I as a deputy under court of protection I had to account for every penny quite literally.

I expect COP scrutiny is far greater than the average LPA .

Just from a quick google here's a quote...

'Back in 2015, KPMG conducted a survey that revealed a shocking number of financial abuse by attorneys was carried out by family members against the elderly. The most common offenders were aged 50-70, stealing from an older family member' 

It happens all the time. 

Let's face it the Office of the Public Guardian is as effective, (snorts with laughter here), as OFGEM, but I expect the monies involved with the former are FAR FAR greater

Pennylane

alicef said:

I have to echo the comments from Pennylane & lisyloo.  I have experience of one of my SIL who helped herself to my  mother's possessions; male siblings, who as LPA for finance, have distributed my mums funds whilst she is still living...possibly impacting payment of her care home fees. (my mum is self funding).

The chances of anyone being held accountable for this, in my humble opinion, is negligible.

Your male siblings cannot do this!  You need to speak to Adult Safeguarding at the relevant local authority.  It is Deprivation of Assets and social services need to know because if your Mum is self funding the care home will not get paid and there is no way social services will pick up the tab if the siblings have given away her money.  

alicef

Pennylane said:

alicef said:

I have to echo the comments from Pennylane & lisyloo.  I have experience of one of my SIL who helped herself to my  mother's possessions; male siblings, who as LPA for finance, have distributed my mums funds whilst she is still living...possibly impacting payment of her care home fees. (my mum is self funding).

The chances of anyone being held accountable for this, in my humble opinion, is negligible.

Your male siblings cannot do this!  You need to speak to Adult Safeguarding at the relevant local authority.  It is Deprivation of Assets and social services need to know because if your Mum is self funding the care home will not get paid and there is no way social services will pick up the tab if the siblings have given away her money.  

To be honest the local authority would only be interested at the point they have to pick up the bill.  As I don't manage the finances I don't know how imminent this is.  In theory my mum should be able to cover her own care home fees until she was WELL over 100, (she is 91) - if this does not occur - how would I know? 

 I only have my suspicions with my brother saying in one breath she is out of money and when I say that can't be possible he admits that she has enough funds to cover care home fees for the next 16 years.

Froglet

Alice,once she runs out of money,there will be a financial assessment and the local authority will want to scrutinise her bank account and other savings.If money has been disappearing when it shouldn't it will show up and then they will have to explain where it's gone.I did one last year for my Mum when her bank account reached the £23,250 limit,and it was very thorough,I had to explain everything that went out over a certain amount.

If she does have enough to.self fund for life,then when she does  pass away,there will be far less in her estate than there should have been.

You may not have the LPA but you do have every right to ask.

alicef

Froglet said:

Once she runs out of money,there will be a financial assessment and the local authority will want to scrutinise her bank account and other savings.If money has been disappearing when it shouldn't it will show up and then they will have to explain where it's gone.I did one last year for my Mum when her bank account reached the £23,250 limit,and it was very thorough,I had to explain everything that went out over a certain amount.

If she does have enough to.self fund for life,then when she does  pass away,there will be far less in her estate than there should have been.

You may not have the LPA but you do have every right to ask.

Possibly those who have been through the process will be more au fait then I. 

Honestly, I'm not sure how thorough the LA will be given that my mum went into care in 2009 and has been self-funding since then.  My brothers have managed her finances and there have been a multitude of accounts.  For example when her main home was sold the money was split over 8 accounts.  I'm sure these have changed over time.  Plus taking into account interest on her funds, her pensions plus other incoming funds such as attendance allowance ?

I can't see the LA being interested or having the man power to delve into finances over multiple accounts over more than the last decade, at minimum, to check.  I'm supposing all the LA can do is pose the question re finances and distribution of funds, and it is up to the respondent to answer truthfully or not.

Froglet

alicef said:

Froglet said:

Once she runs out of money,there will be a financial assessment and the local authority will want to scrutinise her bank account and other savings.If money has been disappearing when it shouldn't it will show up and then they will have to explain where it's gone.I did one last year for my Mum when her bank account reached the £23,250 limit,and it was very thorough,I had to explain everything that went out over a certain amount.

If she does have enough to.self fund for life,then when she does  pass away,there will be far less in her estate than there should have been.

You may not have the LPA but you do have every right to ask.

Possibly those who have been through the process will be more au fait then I. 

Honestly, I'm not sure how thorough the LA will be given that my mum went into care in 2009 and has been self-funding since then.  My brothers have managed her finances and there have been a multitude of accounts.  For example when her main home was sold the money was split over 8 accounts.  I'm sure these have changed over time.  Plus taking into account interest on her funds, her pensions plus other incoming funds such as attendance allowance ?

I can't see the LA being interested or having the man power to delve into finances over multiple accounts over more than the last decade, at minimum, to check.  I'm supposing all the LA can do is pose the question re finances and distribution of funds, and it is up to the respondent to answer truthfully or not.

So much has happened since doing the detailed assessment as Mum died in September and it has been very hard,as I have been 
quite poorly for a long time as well.But from memory,I think I had to send bank statements for the previous 3 or 6 months,one or the other.She only had the one bank.So no,they wouldn't want to.go back a long way.Various county councils may differ,I don't know.
But what they are doing is dishonest and wrong,they are betraying her trust in them,and it must be so upsetting for you.

Glad

@alicef
I've split this thread as you are getting a lot of replies and it will save them getting mixed up with replies to the original query

Pennylane

I would still contact Adult Safeguarding.