Do you do this at round about ????

Chris_English

zagfles said:

Chris_English said:

zagfles said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

zagfles said:

Username03725 said:

To answer the question, no I wouldn't. It's queue jumping by any other name. If you have no problems doing that that's between you and your conscience. If all of the left-turners started randomly choosing to be in the left or right lane it would soon turn to chaos, ergo you're relying on everyone else doing the right thing so that you can take advantage of that. 

To reference an earlier post, this question is completely separate to not correctly merging in turn approaching a road lane closure or width restriction.

It depends on the reason for the queue. If for instance it's because the roundabout is busy eg lots of traffic coming from your right, then using the right lane and going 450 degrees could actually reduce queuing time for those in the left lane as two lanes are being used to get onto the roundabout.

But if the reason for the queue is that the road going to the left is clogged, then using the right lane and doing a 450 will increase queuing time for those who stay left as effectively the circlers are "jumping the queue" to get onto the clogged road.

Yeah - but if you turned 450 you'd be going in the opposite direction to that which you wanted...

(Does nobody know their 90 times table?  We did it in our first week at primary school in the Isle of Man)

Yeah yeah, discussed above. By reference to your entry point of the roundabout, or from an observer in the middle of the roundabout. You enter at 0 degrees. Turn left you've gone 90 degrees round the roundabout. Going straight you've gone 180 degrees round the roundabout. etc. So 450 would be doing the full 360 degrees of the circle back to your starting point, and an extra 90 would be turning left.

Going straight on is turning 180 degrees?

How? Left is 90 degrees left, straight on is zero degrees, right is turning 90 degrees right, and going back the way you came is turning 180 degrees.

Like I said above. Roundabouts tend to be circular, hence the name, so by reference to how many degrees of that circle you cover. You can't usually actually go "straight on" at a proper roundabout as that would mean driving over the middle of it. So you do a 180 degree arc of a circle.

If you want to measure it by change in direction of the car, then going "straight on" would be net 0 degrees, but it will involve initially turning left as you enter, then arcing right round the circle clockwise, then turning left to exit. The net result of those several changes in direction is 0. But using that logic, looping the roundabout then left isn't a 270, it's 90, since 90 degrees is the net change of direction, whether or not you do a full loop.

Rubbish. There are plenty of roundabouts where you need hardly diverge from straight ahead at all. You are writing as though the width of the roads around and on the roundabout is zero, which is clearly not the case.

No-one describes going straight on at the roundabout as doing a 180 degree turn.

victor2

If nothing else, this thread illustrates why satnavs say "at the roundabout take the..." 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc. exit.

It doesn't care how many laps of the roundabout, or degrees rotation, you do before exiting!

zagfles

Chris_English said:

zagfles said:

Chris_English said:

zagfles said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

zagfles said:

Username03725 said:

To answer the question, no I wouldn't. It's queue jumping by any other name. If you have no problems doing that that's between you and your conscience. If all of the left-turners started randomly choosing to be in the left or right lane it would soon turn to chaos, ergo you're relying on everyone else doing the right thing so that you can take advantage of that. 

To reference an earlier post, this question is completely separate to not correctly merging in turn approaching a road lane closure or width restriction.

It depends on the reason for the queue. If for instance it's because the roundabout is busy eg lots of traffic coming from your right, then using the right lane and going 450 degrees could actually reduce queuing time for those in the left lane as two lanes are being used to get onto the roundabout.

But if the reason for the queue is that the road going to the left is clogged, then using the right lane and doing a 450 will increase queuing time for those who stay left as effectively the circlers are "jumping the queue" to get onto the clogged road.

Yeah - but if you turned 450 you'd be going in the opposite direction to that which you wanted...

(Does nobody know their 90 times table?  We did it in our first week at primary school in the Isle of Man)

Yeah yeah, discussed above. By reference to your entry point of the roundabout, or from an observer in the middle of the roundabout. You enter at 0 degrees. Turn left you've gone 90 degrees round the roundabout. Going straight you've gone 180 degrees round the roundabout. etc. So 450 would be doing the full 360 degrees of the circle back to your starting point, and an extra 90 would be turning left.

Going straight on is turning 180 degrees?

How? Left is 90 degrees left, straight on is zero degrees, right is turning 90 degrees right, and going back the way you came is turning 180 degrees.

Like I said above. Roundabouts tend to be circular, hence the name, so by reference to how many degrees of that circle you cover. You can't usually actually go "straight on" at a proper roundabout as that would mean driving over the middle of it. So you do a 180 degree arc of a circle.

If you want to measure it by change in direction of the car, then going "straight on" would be net 0 degrees, but it will involve initially turning left as you enter, then arcing right round the circle clockwise, then turning left to exit. The net result of those several changes in direction is 0. But using that logic, looping the roundabout then left isn't a 270, it's 90, since 90 degrees is the net change of direction, whether or not you do a full loop.

Rubbish. There are plenty of roundabouts where you need hardly diverge from straight ahead at all. You are writing as though the width of the roads around and on the roundabout is zero, which is clearly not the case.

No-one describes going straight on at the roundabout as doing a 180 degree turn.

Try reading the thread.

Brie

I would only object to someone in the right lane insisting on turning left at the first exit.  Even if they were signaling.  That they have circled around (doing 270 or 520 or whatever other calculation) is unlikely to be apparent to me as I watch the road not cars zipping around on the other side of a usually overgrown circle.

We have a roundabout near work and it's a bit easier to approach it on one road - that always gets a very long tailback - or you can use a different road that has less of a tailback and gives one the priority once on the roundabout.  I like this way the best as it gets me through the congestion quicker while not offending the huffeting harrumphers who would otherwise object to queue jumpers.  

fyi - I also will use the right lane as far as is reasonable up to the point when I need to filter in.  And I huff harrumph those who tailgate to prevent me filtering in.

EssexExile

It's a good thing geometry isn't part of the driving test.

zagfles

EssexExile said:

It's a good thing geometry isn't part of the driving test.

They had the same pedantic argument on pistonheads 11 years ago

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=953935&i=140

zagfles

Bigphil1474 said:

Car_54 said:

Bigphil1474 said:

Nope. Depending on the size of the roundabout, but for a normal road roundabout, turning right is 90 degrees, coming back on yourself is 180, turning left by going right round is 270, and going back to where you were facing in the first place is 360 degrees.
I've never done the go round the roundabout trick, i think it's rude, lazy and selfish, but each to their own.

Your driving may be good, but your maths is very dodgy.

Left is 90 degrees, ahead is 180, right is 270. Doing what the OP suggests is 450.

It's perfectly legal and I've done it. 

My maths is perfect as others have explained (from the drivers perspective) - and my O level, AO level, and A level obviously taught me summat. 

Just to carry on this pedantry for a bit for fun for us maths geeks. Your maths is wrong. (I trump your A-level with A-level Further Maths  )

I think 270 for a loop then left is almost always incorrect.

Firstly, forget mini roundabouts, as no-one is going to loop a mini roundabout to get ahead of traffic, and they rarely have 2 lane entries. OP was obviously talking about a proper roundabout.

So, if you're going by the change in direction of the car, there's 2 ways to do it.

1. Take the net change of direction, where eg turning towards the left is positive and turning right is negative. Then clearly taking the exit to your left is +90 and taking the exit to the right is -90. If you go straight on, that's 0 even if, like for most roundabouts, you have to initally turn left to enter it, even if only slightly, then go right slightly as you go round it, then left as you exit. If you do it this way, then whether you turn left immediately or loop the roundabout and then turn left, or even if you make 100 loops and turn left, it's still +90. It's the net change of direction, it's the direction you end up going that matters. So 270 is definitely wrong.
   
2. Or, take the total change of direction, ie ignoring whether left or right and adding turns to the left to turns to the right. Now if you could make the manoeuvre by only turning towards your right, then if you loop and go left it would be 270. You've turned 270 to the right. However that's very unlikely with any normal roundabout. You'll almost certainly have to turn at least a bit to left to enter it, and exit from it. So the total change of direction will be more than 270, often considerably more.
   

Therefore, 270 is almost always wrong however you look at it!

[Deleted User]

Chris_English said:

Deleted_User said:

Pkman said:

So there is a massive queue to go left at the round about.

And you go on the right hand land, do a 360 degree, then turn left where you meant to go

Save so much time. All legal too

No, I go into the right hand lane and floor it to beat the traffic in the left hand lane, then move back over into the left hand lane to exit onto the slip road. Some people get annoyed and take it out on their horn but who cares, I'm away... 

That only works if you have an exceptionally fast car so that you don’t hold anyone up or inconvenience them.

Sadly you also get people trying to do it in their old “hot” hatch, which is just selfish.

I way up what is in the left hand lane first and the types of drivers before deciding to go into the right lane. The roundabout in question is huge.

Belenus

Pkman said:

So there is a massive queue to go left at the round about.

And you go on the right hand land, do a 360 degree, then turn left where you meant to go

Save so much time. All legal too

I have done that a few times many years ago in my boy racer days but these days I drive a lot less and I rarely if ever encounter such a situation.

To add fuel to the raging fire of those who protest such actions, I have been known to do the following, but again not for many years.

In busy very slow moving traffic on a motorway, when leaving the motorway for an alternative route is not an option, I have occasionally come off the motorway at a junction and immediately re-joined it, sometimes overtaking as much as half a mile of traffic.

You have to be sure that it isn't a limited junction where you can leave but not re-join.

You also take the risk that there is a queue to join the motorway and you end up further back than if you had stayed on the motorway.

zagfles

Belenus said:

Pkman said:

So there is a massive queue to go left at the round about.

And you go on the right hand land, do a 360 degree, then turn left where you meant to go

Save so much time. All legal too

I have done that a few times many years ago in my boy racer days but these days I drive a lot less and I rarely if ever encounter such a situation.

To add fuel to the raging fire of those who protest such actions, I have been known to do the following, but again not for many years.

In busy very slow moving traffic on a motorway, when leaving the motorway for an alternative route is not an option, I have occasionally come off the motorway at a junction and immediately re-joined it, sometimes overtaking as much as half a mile of traffic.

You have to be sure that it isn't a limited junction where you can leave but not re-join.

You also take the risk that there is a queue to join the motorway and you end up further back than if you had stayed on the motorway.

A couple of times when following the sat nav, it's directed me to do exactly that!