Liverpool Airport VCS PCN: Some questions re: Defence

VeryOldBailey

I'm going to start this post by offering my sincere thanks to everyone who has contributed to making this forum such an invaluable resource. Thank you all.

I'm working on my Defence prior to submission at the end of the month. I'm using Coupon-Mad's TEMPLATE DEFENCE - NEW FROM OCTOBER 2020 (Oct20) as my starting point. These are my questions:

1. Somewhere else on the site I have read a defence that maintains that 'forbidding words' cannot form the basis of a contract. Would it be best to incorporate it into the template or will Oct20 suffice?
2. Para 3 of the template makes suggestions relating to parking but my 'contravention' relates to stopping. Should I give brief details of how I came to be stationary instead?
3. Similarly, at various other points in Oct20 (e.g. Paras 14 & 15) reference is made to 'terms'. Are there any terms attached to a 'No Stopping' order? Or is 'No Stopping' the only relevant term?
4. Para 8 makes reference to Codes of Practice. The signage at the airport at the the time does not conform to the IPC CoP then in use. Should I include this point in Para 8?

Thanks again for your help.

Redx

1) only if you need extra words to suit your case , the template defence already covers signage , so forbidding signage is one aspect

2) yes , especially if your 2) says keeper and driver

3) I didn't understand the question or relevance

4) incorporate extra information into your witness statement plus exhibits in several months time , when you expand on the template , so in general , no you don't alter the rest of the template , your WS is the place for it

The template creates the open doors , the WS goes into the room and describes the contents thoroughly

A defence should be concise and to the point , setting the scene before the play starts

Read a dozen airport defences at JLA , RHA , Bristol and Southend airports and you will see what they added or changed etc , JLA is no different , it's all the same arguments by both sides. You will learn from any court claim thread over the last 2 years , if you find and read them ( especially the concludes ones )

KeithP

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Have you filed an Acknowledgment of Service?
If so, upon what date did you do so?
Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

VeryOldBailey

Thank you both for taking the trouble to respond.

@Redx

I appreciate all your suggestions. What I was trying to say in my third question relates to  e.g. a car park where the driver can enter the car park, read the T&Cs, decide they don't like them and drive out of the car park. Whereas 'No Stopping' doesn't suggest there is anything to decide - if you don't like 'No Stopping' take the nearest exit. In such a context, can I still claim that there is no opportunity for me to agree to the T&Cs?

@KeithP

Date of Issue: 29 December 2021

AoS filed: 7 January 2022

Redx

So as red lines indicate no stopping , were red lines involved ?

In London on a clearway with red lines , it will have no stopping signs , so no terms and conditions to stop and read , because it is a forbidden action !

You do realise that no stopping is a common theme throughout these cases , but you should be putting that Defence argument to a judge , in a hearing , if you want a definitive answer. Your whole case revolves around those arguments , including signage , such as yellow or red lines ( I don't see red lines mentioned anywhere in this discussion thread )

We see loads of these no stopping cases , at pedestrian crossings , halt signs , on yellow lines , emergency stops , all sorts , like this one

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6102909/claim-form-received-from-vcs-for-stopping-at-southend-airport/p1

And this one

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6294890/bristol-airport-no-stopping-vcs-court-claim/p1

KeithP

VeryOldBailey said:

Date of Issue: 29 December 2021

AoS filed: 7 January 2022

With a Claim Issue Date of 29th December, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 31st January 2022 to file your Defence.

That's less than a week away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Doomtrooper

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Sorry for dumb question. But why defence shouldnt be filed via the MoneyClaimOnline? Why MCOL website shoudl be treated 'read only'?

KeithP

Doomtrooper said:

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Sorry for dumb question. But why defence shouldnt be filed via the MoneyClaimOnline? Why MCOL website shoudl be treated 'read only'?

That is fully explained in Bargepole's 'What happens when' post linked from the second post on the NEWBIES thread.

Doomtrooper

KeithP said:

Doomtrooper said:

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Sorry for dumb question. But why defence shouldnt be filed via the MoneyClaimOnline? Why MCOL website shoudl be treated 'read only'?

That is fully explained in Bargepole's 'What happens when' post linked from the second post on the NEWBIES thread.

Thank you very much for quick reply. I have swept through whole second post of NEWBIE thread and I couldnt find answer why Defence shouldnt be filled via MCOL website?

KeithP

Doomtrooper said:

KeithP said:

Doomtrooper said:

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Sorry for dumb question. But why defence shouldnt be filed via the MoneyClaimOnline? Why MCOL website shoudl be treated 'read only'?

That is fully explained in Bargepole's 'What happens when' post linked from the second post on the NEWBIES thread.

Thank you very much for quick reply. I have swept through whole second post of NEWBIE thread and I couldnt find answer why Defence shouldnt be filled via MCOL website?

But I did say "That is fully explained in Bargepole's 'What happens when' post linked from the second post on the NEWBIES thread".

You need to sweep deeper and read Bargepole's 'What happens when' post linked from the second post on the NEWBIES thread.

Umkomaas

You are restricted to a very limited number of words, you are seemingly not warned if you exceed that number, but the Defence the Claimant and Judge will see will only be the truncated Defence, potentially cutting it off in no-man's-land. 

The MCOL printout of your Defence will be devoid of any formatting, not much better than a wall of text.  

Enough?