Pre Booked Holiday

jack_tyler

Hello. 
My son started a new job at the beginning of Sept 2021. He didn’t have an interview, he found out about the job via someone who already worked there, went to see them on a Fri and started the following Mon. Approx 2/3 wks later he was given a contract, at the same time he was asked if he had any time off already booked, so my son told them about a holiday we are due to go on, on the 25th Feb to 14th March, which has been booked now since 2019, but because of Covid, has been moved 3 times. His boss said “ok no problem, because you’ve had that booked before starting with us, we will honour that for you”. Fast forward to Nov 2021 when the full balance of the holiday was due (up until this point only a deposit had been paid) I asked my son if he was still ok to have the time off, he said yes and would speak to his boss about putting it in the diary. He came home from work later the next day, said he couldn’t put it in the diary because the holidays only go from Jan - Dec, but his boss had said not to worry, there won’t be a problem, just wait until Jan and we can put it in the diary then, so I went ahead and paid the balance of the holiday. Now.....yesterday my son came home from work and said he asked his boss about putting the holiday in the diary, his boss said what are the dates again, my son told him, and now he’s said he can’t let him have the time off. Apparently they have a big order in that has to be out by the end of March, so he can’t give my son the time off. 
I was fuming!!!! I can’t cancel the holiday because il lose all my money, so please can anyone tell me what rights my son has, if any? This holiday is a holiday that me and my late husband had always talked about doing but never got the chance. I have saved up for quite some time for it, and I can’t afford to lose the money I will lose if I cancel it. So any help or advice would be greatly appreciated 
Thank you 

Dakta

Sounds like a right messabout especially as the boss has openly acknowledged on more than one occasion the holiday would be fine. Probably an order that has come in recently and the company want to make the most of it (as I would in these uncertain times). Not an excuse I know but probably one of those situations where nobody wants to do anyone any harm but everyones protecting their interests and everyone else is wrong for compromising them

People more informed than I will come along but my thoughts are how much does he need the job? Technically a company can tell you when to take the holiday, and if you annoy the boss he can get rid for (almost) any reason unless he's been there over 2 years (which it seems he hasn't) so 'not a right lot' springs to mind. Always worth a look at the contract though to see if there's any mention of holiday booking procedures but even if that is fruitful then the boss could just say 'sorry mate, my business comes first, orders and all, you've become a lot of hassle no matter how right you might feel you are so do you mind not returning'

The boss whilst messing you all about doesn't sound like a completely evil character even if not very consistent as he seemed totally happy to let your son have the time off until he'd double checked the dates so might be worth actually being open and honest about the situation, explain that it's not just holiday for the sake of having some time off to do nothing there's actually money at risk here (might also be worth approaching the holiday company too to see if there is *anything* that can be done). Times are weird and with the right attitude and approach you might be able to find a solution.

Some of the response ive mentioned seem a bit extreme, but one to weigh up IMHO. I'm sure more knowledgeable folk will chip in 

warby68

Bosses can be busy and a lot of time has passed since the original commitment to honour the holiday.

It might be worth asking for another discussion to refresh memories, that it was a one off special family holiday and the money has been paid across on the strength of the earlier assurances. It still may come down to choosing job or holiday but you never know.

lisyloo

Probably won’t help you now, but I get it all in writing before I start.

is the holiday definitely still on? (Omicron spreading).
can you reveal the destination?

getmore4less

I significant issue here as the company(boss) cannot be trusted.

Holiday was ok and now it's not.

(Best to get previously booked holiday into the starting contract to override statutory and standard contract provisions to cancel)

Good places negotiate cancellation of approved holidays, not all have the provision in the contract to cancel in line with statutory notice.

Looks like boss just said yes and forgot about it or never intended the holiday if they got busy.

What's the concensus of others on honouring holidays generally

What's the notice period?
How much does son want this job?
How much does the place need your son?

Negotiation, if that does not work then resignation to finish in line with the holiday.

Still quite a while maybe offer some extra hours to help bring the work in earlier.

I have been in the deadlines situation no holiday and then project slip anyway into the dates holiday has been booked.

Might not be relevant depending on type of work.

Also review the ability to change the holiday not ideal but a lot of holiday companies are being flexible with covid to moving bookings.

Own_Worst_Enermy

Resign and reapply if it comes to it - don’t ever give more notice then needed in case they decide not to honour notice period and tell son immediately to go...

When asked why leaving - be truthful if what has happened has been the version of events.

Suppose it will depend on how much the job is liked/the likelihood of whether it’s a hot job for others to apply for.

In future, my suggestion is to email requests so it’s in writing. I’m sorry to upset but how it’s been explained makes me feel your son has been winging it slightly and possibly telling you what you want to hear, until the last conversation, I know I’ve been guilty of saying yeah, yeah I’m telling work only to let it fester until it’s quite or to late on...I’ve always been stupid to get new jobs just as the family holiday is kind of approaching! 
any employer no matter how useless will want to know about planning in of annual leave when it’s ‘an only one off at a time’ policy. If the Employer really has been difficult over this and there are employers you can give extra long notice to who are still ‘bound to forget’, what else will they be difficult about? 

Sandtree

Employers can cancel agreed holiday by giving double the notice of the duration of the holiday. Looks like he asked for 10 working days holiday so must be given 20 working days notice to cancel it even if it was previously approved. 

Clearly any good employer does this very reluctantly as its not a way to make your staff happy or engaged, I have certainly known it to happen and in those few cases compensation was given to the employee (we are talking fairly specialist and experienced people who know they are a key man to what they're doing so was no real surprise when the conversations happened). 

He ideally needs to have another conversation with his boss and discuss the importance of the trip rather than it just being a general annual holiday... he shouldnt make threats to resign etc unless he is willing to follow through with it.

I'm personally not sure how I would take an interviewee telling me their reason for leaving their last job in under 6 months was because a holiday was cancelled and so they quit to be able to go on the hols. 

jack_tyler

lisyloo said:

Probably won’t help you now, but I get it all in writing before I start.

is the holiday definitely still on? (Omicron spreading).
can you reveal the destination?

Yes the holiday is definitely still on, and its a cruise

Thrugelmir

Start looking for alternative employment. No relationship will survive once trust is broken. 

jack_tyler

Jillanddy said:

Sandtree said:

I'm personally not sure how I would take an interviewee telling me their reason for leaving their last job in under 6 months was because a holiday was cancelled and so they quit to be able to go on the hols. 

Whilst I certainly wouldn't recommend resigning (and most people can't afford such luxuries), if someone told me this whole story (not just that they quit because they weren't allowed to go on holiday when they wanted), I would probably give them the benefit of the doubt. Assuming they appeared to be a fit for the job I had, I would consider the balance of "maybe they aren't telling the whole truth" against "I respect someone who tried their best and was being a good son in special circumstances". After all, in the end I have two years to find out the whole truth! Whilst I can have some sympathy with the boss and his business need, he played his own 50% of the messy situation and ought to do more to try to find a solution.

My son rang me earlier and said that he has spoke to his boss again. The boss has now said if my son can get Ryan (the lad who used to do the job before my son started doing it) to cover the 2 wks whilst he'll be off and then ask someone to cover Ryan's job, he can have the time off. However, he will only pay him holiday pay for the 1st week, the 2nd week has to be unpaid. Not sure why he is doing this, but am I right in thinking that this would mean he would have 1 wks hol left to take? Also, surely it should be the boss's job to find cover, as that is what he has to do as a boss, manage his staff.

General_Grant

jack_tyler said:

Jillanddy said:

Sandtree said:

I'm personally not sure how I would take an interviewee telling me their reason for leaving their last job in under 6 months was because a holiday was cancelled and so they quit to be able to go on the hols. 

Whilst I certainly wouldn't recommend resigning (and most people can't afford such luxuries), if someone told me this whole story (not just that they quit because they weren't allowed to go on holiday when they wanted), I would probably give them the benefit of the doubt. Assuming they appeared to be a fit for the job I had, I would consider the balance of "maybe they aren't telling the whole truth" against "I respect someone who tried their best and was being a good son in special circumstances". After all, in the end I have two years to find out the whole truth! Whilst I can have some sympathy with the boss and his business need, he played his own 50% of the messy situation and ought to do more to try to find a solution.

My son rang me earlier and said that he has spoke to his boss again. The boss has now said if my son can get Ryan (the lad who used to do the job before my son started doing it) to cover the 2 wks whilst he'll be off and then ask someone to cover Ryan's job, he can have the time off. However, he will only pay him holiday pay for the 1st week, the 2nd week has to be unpaid. Not sure why he is doing this, but am I right in thinking that this would mean he would have 1 wks hol left to take? Also, surely it should be the boss's job to find cover, as that is what he has to do as a boss, manage his staff.

Of course it is the boss's job to organise staffing . . . but if these people are easy enough to contact at work, your son might as well try.

If one week is unpaid then that may be reasonable if he has not worked there long enough to have accrued the second week's entitlement.  He would then be able to take the statutory paid leave later on.