Pre Booked Holiday

jack_tyler

74jax said:

jack_tyler said:

Jillanddy said:

jack_tyler said:

Jillanddy said:

Sandtree said:

I'm personally not sure how I would take an interviewee telling me their reason for leaving their last job in under 6 months was because a holiday was cancelled and so they quit to be able to go on the hols. 

Whilst I certainly wouldn't recommend resigning (and most people can't afford such luxuries), if someone told me this whole story (not just that they quit because they weren't allowed to go on holiday when they wanted), I would probably give them the benefit of the doubt. Assuming they appeared to be a fit for the job I had, I would consider the balance of "maybe they aren't telling the whole truth" against "I respect someone who tried their best and was being a good son in special circumstances". After all, in the end I have two years to find out the whole truth! Whilst I can have some sympathy with the boss and his business need, he played his own 50% of the messy situation and ought to do more to try to find a solution.

My son rang me earlier and said that he has spoke to his boss again. The boss has now said if my son can get Ryan (the lad who used to do the job before my son started doing it) to cover the 2 wks whilst he'll be off and then ask someone to cover Ryan's job, he can have the time off. However, he will only pay him holiday pay for the 1st week, the 2nd week has to be unpaid. Not sure why he is doing this, but am I right in thinking that this would mean he would have 1 wks hol left to take? Also, surely it should be the boss's job to find cover, as that is what he has to do as a boss, manage his staff.

Well he has two choices now, doesn't he? He can stand on ceremony and tell the boss to sort out cover himself, in which case he will have neither holiday nor a job. He has no right to take leave that hasn't been approved, and "messy" or not, it wasn't approved. Or he can suck it up and get on with speaking to others to ask them if they can help.

As for what it means, that the second week would be unpaid, has he learned nothing from this? It doesn't matter what we, you or anyone else is "right in thinking" - the only thing that matters is what the boss is thinking and the way to find that out is to ask the boss. Preferably in writing. But "what someone thinks" is not the right answer - sorting things out properly with your boss is the right answer. If that isn't possible, then it is time to start thinking about whether this job is the right job for him. 

More things have come to light this evening. Following on from a chat that my son has had with his boss today,  it seems that the boss didn't realise how long the holiday was (11 days) when he first ok'd it back in Sept, and if he goes to his boss who is the one who approves holiday requests, he will be in trouble for telling my son he could have it, without properly looking into it......hence the reason why he has asked my son to try and get cover for it, then it will look better when he approaches his boss. As for my son sorthing things out properly, he has been trying to do that since he first started in Sept last year. When he has tried to get the holidays booked, he has always been told to wait as its too soon yet.

This is different to what you first said. 

If the boss said to wait, its too soon, then why on earth did you go ahead and book and pay for the holiday.

You previously said he agreed it, but it couldn't go in the diary. This is completely different. 

All you can do is stress to your son everything is in writing in future. Even his boss asking him to sort the cover should be in an email.  Too late now but in any future job its best to start as you mean to go on, email trail anything of importance. 

Not sure why you say its different from what I first said, so il explain again. The holiday has been booked since 2019 to go away in Nov 2020,  but was cancelled by the holiday company because of Covid. It was then rearranged to go in Nov 2021, but again cancelled by the holiday company because of Covid, it has now been rearranged for 25th Feb and it is now definitely going ahead. My son told his boss back in Sept when he first started working there, that he had this holiday booked. His boss said because it has already been booked before he started working for them, he would honour the holiday and told my son to remind him again more nearer the time. He did this in Nov 2021 (when the balance of the holiday had to be paid, up until this point a deposit had only been paid) and his boss said because the holiday diary runs Jan - Dec, he couldnt put it in then, but dont worry there wont be a problem, wait until Jan and then he could put it in the diary then. So I went ahead and paid the holiday.

jack_tyler

Spendless said:

Why would having 11 days holiday be a problem? 

A similar issue came up at my workplace yesterday and the issue is more days off than company policy allows in one go, which wasn't flagged to my colleague at their interview.   

I'm really not sure, other than its because of this big order they have in. Most people when going on holiday have 2 wks off, so cant see the problem.

getmore4less

Jillanddy said:

getmore4less said:

jack_tyler said:

lisyloo said:

Probably won’t help you now, but I get it all in writing before I start.

is the holiday definitely still on? (Omicron spreading).
can you reveal the destination?

Yes the holiday is definitely still on, and its a cruise

A lot of cruises are getting cancelled and if you test positive good chance of getting kicked off into local quarantine.
A lot of not great report.

Caribbean has been a nightmare for cruise lines getting refused entry to ports.


Most cruise companies have flexibility on moving cruises.

My friends father is currently on a plague ship. He ignored all the advice to not go on the cruise. Along with others tested positive and has been decanted from the cruise ship to an isolation ship where everyone is confined to cabins,  can't leave,  and can't fly home because they are positive. If I had to be back at work or I would lose my job,  the last place on earth I would be is on a cruise ship. I hope the son has factored in that risk. His holiday may be a lot longer than 11 days! 

Plenty of cruises have been fine, a lot have been safer than land(from experience on ships relatively recently).

The trick was to pick the ones that were maintaining save standards.

Omicron changed it for those lines that were a bit too lax many operating in the Caribbean as it has spread a lot easier.

Canaries ones have been doing better.

We don't know the cruise but there are not that many covering those dates.

Thrugelmir

jack_tyler said:

Jillanddy said:

jack_tyler said:

Jillanddy said:

Sandtree said:

I'm personally not sure how I would take an interviewee telling me their reason for leaving their last job in under 6 months was because a holiday was cancelled and so they quit to be able to go on the hols. 

Whilst I certainly wouldn't recommend resigning (and most people can't afford such luxuries), if someone told me this whole story (not just that they quit because they weren't allowed to go on holiday when they wanted), I would probably give them the benefit of the doubt. Assuming they appeared to be a fit for the job I had, I would consider the balance of "maybe they aren't telling the whole truth" against "I respect someone who tried their best and was being a good son in special circumstances". After all, in the end I have two years to find out the whole truth! Whilst I can have some sympathy with the boss and his business need, he played his own 50% of the messy situation and ought to do more to try to find a solution.

My son rang me earlier and said that he has spoke to his boss again. The boss has now said if my son can get Ryan (the lad who used to do the job before my son started doing it) to cover the 2 wks whilst he'll be off and then ask someone to cover Ryan's job, he can have the time off. However, he will only pay him holiday pay for the 1st week, the 2nd week has to be unpaid. Not sure why he is doing this, but am I right in thinking that this would mean he would have 1 wks hol left to take? Also, surely it should be the boss's job to find cover, as that is what he has to do as a boss, manage his staff.

Well he has two choices now, doesn't he? He can stand on ceremony and tell the boss to sort out cover himself, in which case he will have neither holiday nor a job. He has no right to take leave that hasn't been approved, and "messy" or not, it wasn't approved. Or he can suck it up and get on with speaking to others to ask them if they can help.

As for what it means, that the second week would be unpaid, has he learned nothing from this? It doesn't matter what we, you or anyone else is "right in thinking" - the only thing that matters is what the boss is thinking and the way to find that out is to ask the boss. Preferably in writing. But "what someone thinks" is not the right answer - sorting things out properly with your boss is the right answer. If that isn't possible, then it is time to start thinking about whether this job is the right job for him. 

When he has tried to get the holidays booked, he has always been told to wait as its too soon yet.

The pandemic has been ongoing. The business is going to come first. Employee holidays are unfortunately secondary.  As is often the case the story you are relating second hand is akin to standing on shifting sands. Seems as if your son is only drip feeding you information. Having made a big assumption that taking the leave wouldn't be an issue and booking the holiday before getting the leave authorised. 

Savvy_Sue

jack_tyler said:

and his boss said because the holiday diary runs Jan - Dec, he couldnt put it in then, but dont worry there wont be a problem, wait until Jan and then he could put it in the diary then. 

I know this doesn't help, but how does anyone reliably book holiday in January on that system? "Hi boss, I'd like to take a week's leave in the New Year, straight after Christmas, would that be OK?" "Sorry, jack, can't put it in the holiday diary before January, you'll have to come in on the first day so that I can do that." 

TBagpuss

Spendless said:

Why would having 11 days holiday be a problem? 

A similar issue came up at my workplace yesterday and the issue is more days off than company policy allows in one go, which wasn't flagged to my colleague at their interview.   

It's not uncommon to have rules about how much holiday can be taken at a time. Where I work, the rule is that if you want more than 2 consecutive weeks (so 11 or more days, for a full timer) it needs special authorisation. It's about coverage - if one person takes 11 days (so going into 3 working weeks) , especially at popular / bust times that can affect whether others are able to take time off, and even if it s only one day which overlaps, if you need minimum levels of cover then that can still be a problem.   

happyc84

I've worked in places where you have to clear your workload before going on hols including the time that you are off. So no-one worked on your workload while you were off, but the workload was waiting for you when you returned.
Resource Manager - that's their job not yours unless you are a resource Manager wanting time off.

I'd think about moving elsewhere, sound like a terrible company.

Sandtree

TBagpuss said:

Spendless said:

Why would having 11 days holiday be a problem? 

A similar issue came up at my workplace yesterday and the issue is more days off than company policy allows in one go, which wasn't flagged to my colleague at their interview.   

It's not uncommon to have rules about how much holiday can be taken at a time. Where I work, the rule is that if you want more than 2 consecutive weeks (so 11 or more days, for a full timer) it needs special authorisation. It's about coverage - if one person takes 11 days (so going into 3 working weeks) , especially at popular / bust times that can affect whether others are able to take time off, and even if it s only one day which overlaps, if you need minimum levels of cover then that can still be a problem.   

It can go both ways, a former employer mandated that everyone had to take at least one two week holiday (or longer) a year and it was put as a counter fraud measure - ie if you go away for 2 weeks or more you have to handover to someone else and so someone can spot issues, if you only ever take a day here and there its unlikely anyone else ever steps into your job.

I went to a new employer and booked a 2.5 week holiday to go see the future inlaws for the first time (different continent) and only then found out that they required Exec dispensation for any holiday over 10 days in length.

General_Grant

getmore4less said:

jack_tyler said:

Jillanddy said:

Sandtree said:

I'm personally not sure how I would take an interviewee telling me their reason for leaving their last job in under 6 months was because a holiday was cancelled and so they quit to be able to go on the hols. 

Whilst I certainly wouldn't recommend resigning (and most people can't afford such luxuries), if someone told me this whole story (not just that they quit because they weren't allowed to go on holiday when they wanted), I would probably give them the benefit of the doubt. Assuming they appeared to be a fit for the job I had, I would consider the balance of "maybe they aren't telling the whole truth" against "I respect someone who tried their best and was being a good son in special circumstances". After all, in the end I have two years to find out the whole truth! Whilst I can have some sympathy with the boss and his business need, he played his own 50% of the messy situation and ought to do more to try to find a solution.

My son rang me earlier and said that he has spoke to his boss again. The boss has now said if my son can get Ryan (the lad who used to do the job before my son started doing it) to cover the 2 wks whilst he'll be off and then ask someone to cover Ryan's job, he can have the time off. However, he will only pay him holiday pay for the 1st week, the 2nd week has to be unpaid. Not sure why he is doing this, but am I right in thinking that this would mean he would have 1 wks hol left to take? Also, surely it should be the boss's job to find cover, as that is what he has to do as a boss, manage his staff.

What other paid holiday has he had so far?

Holiday accrues at a rate of 1/12 on the 1st of the month in the first year.

What is the holiday year?

If calendar that's only 2/12 just under a week in Feb 1.4 weeks March.

Unpaid holiday does not come out of the holiday allowance.

But . . .
if the employer wants - and to make it fair for other employees who may not be taking unpaid leave - they should reduce the amount of leave available.  That's because the employee would not be working the amount of time which would give the full year's entitlement.

I mention this because I worked for one employer (small office of about 10 people) where one person would take frequent extra weeks unpaid.   It did hack off other people who had to work longer in order to have the same amount of paid leave. 

getmore4less

General_Grant said:

getmore4less said:

jack_tyler said:

Jillanddy said:

Sandtree said:

I'm personally not sure how I would take an interviewee telling me their reason for leaving their last job in under 6 months was because a holiday was cancelled and so they quit to be able to go on the hols. 

Whilst I certainly wouldn't recommend resigning (and most people can't afford such luxuries), if someone told me this whole story (not just that they quit because they weren't allowed to go on holiday when they wanted), I would probably give them the benefit of the doubt. Assuming they appeared to be a fit for the job I had, I would consider the balance of "maybe they aren't telling the whole truth" against "I respect someone who tried their best and was being a good son in special circumstances". After all, in the end I have two years to find out the whole truth! Whilst I can have some sympathy with the boss and his business need, he played his own 50% of the messy situation and ought to do more to try to find a solution.

My son rang me earlier and said that he has spoke to his boss again. The boss has now said if my son can get Ryan (the lad who used to do the job before my son started doing it) to cover the 2 wks whilst he'll be off and then ask someone to cover Ryan's job, he can have the time off. However, he will only pay him holiday pay for the 1st week, the 2nd week has to be unpaid. Not sure why he is doing this, but am I right in thinking that this would mean he would have 1 wks hol left to take? Also, surely it should be the boss's job to find cover, as that is what he has to do as a boss, manage his staff.

What other paid holiday has he had so far?

Holiday accrues at a rate of 1/12 on the 1st of the month in the first year.

What is the holiday year?

If calendar that's only 2/12 just under a week in Feb 1.4 weeks March.

Unpaid holiday does not come out of the holiday allowance.

But . . .
if the employer wants - and to make it fair for other employees who may not be taking unpaid leave - they should reduce the amount of leave available.  That's because the employee would not be working the amount of time which would give the full year's entitlement.

I mention this because I worked for one employer (small office of about 10 people) where one person would take frequent extra weeks unpaid.   It did hack off other people who had to work longer in order to have the same amount of paid leave. 

Because of the new rules(2020) that holiday pay is the average of the previous weeks worked that covers the week not paid.

Still due statutory minimum of 5.6 weeks for the first year.