Pre Booked Holiday

jack_tyler

Jillanddy said:

jack_tyler said:

Jillanddy said:

Sandtree said:

I'm personally not sure how I would take an interviewee telling me their reason for leaving their last job in under 6 months was because a holiday was cancelled and so they quit to be able to go on the hols. 

Whilst I certainly wouldn't recommend resigning (and most people can't afford such luxuries), if someone told me this whole story (not just that they quit because they weren't allowed to go on holiday when they wanted), I would probably give them the benefit of the doubt. Assuming they appeared to be a fit for the job I had, I would consider the balance of "maybe they aren't telling the whole truth" against "I respect someone who tried their best and was being a good son in special circumstances". After all, in the end I have two years to find out the whole truth! Whilst I can have some sympathy with the boss and his business need, he played his own 50% of the messy situation and ought to do more to try to find a solution.

My son rang me earlier and said that he has spoke to his boss again. The boss has now said if my son can get Ryan (the lad who used to do the job before my son started doing it) to cover the 2 wks whilst he'll be off and then ask someone to cover Ryan's job, he can have the time off. However, he will only pay him holiday pay for the 1st week, the 2nd week has to be unpaid. Not sure why he is doing this, but am I right in thinking that this would mean he would have 1 wks hol left to take? Also, surely it should be the boss's job to find cover, as that is what he has to do as a boss, manage his staff.

Well he has two choices now, doesn't he? He can stand on ceremony and tell the boss to sort out cover himself, in which case he will have neither holiday nor a job. He has no right to take leave that hasn't been approved, and "messy" or not, it wasn't approved. Or he can suck it up and get on with speaking to others to ask them if they can help.

As for what it means, that the second week would be unpaid, has he learned nothing from this? It doesn't matter what we, you or anyone else is "right in thinking" - the only thing that matters is what the boss is thinking and the way to find that out is to ask the boss. Preferably in writing. But "what someone thinks" is not the right answer - sorting things out properly with your boss is the right answer. If that isn't possible, then it is time to start thinking about whether this job is the right job for him. 

More things have come to light this evening. Following on from a chat that my son has had with his boss today,  it seems that the boss didn't realise how long the holiday was (11 days) when he first ok'd it back in Sept, and if he goes to his boss who is the one who approves holiday requests, he will be in trouble for telling my son he could have it, without properly looking into it......hence the reason why he has asked my son to try and get cover for it, then it will look better when he approaches his boss. As for my son sorthing things out properly, he has been trying to do that since he first started in Sept last year. When he has tried to get the holidays booked, he has always been told to wait as its too soon yet.

Spendless

Why would having 11 days holiday be a problem? 

A similar issue came up at my workplace yesterday and the issue is more days off than company policy allows in one go, which wasn't flagged to my colleague at their interview.   

74jax

jack_tyler said:

Jillanddy said:

jack_tyler said:

Jillanddy said:

Sandtree said:

I'm personally not sure how I would take an interviewee telling me their reason for leaving their last job in under 6 months was because a holiday was cancelled and so they quit to be able to go on the hols. 

Whilst I certainly wouldn't recommend resigning (and most people can't afford such luxuries), if someone told me this whole story (not just that they quit because they weren't allowed to go on holiday when they wanted), I would probably give them the benefit of the doubt. Assuming they appeared to be a fit for the job I had, I would consider the balance of "maybe they aren't telling the whole truth" against "I respect someone who tried their best and was being a good son in special circumstances". After all, in the end I have two years to find out the whole truth! Whilst I can have some sympathy with the boss and his business need, he played his own 50% of the messy situation and ought to do more to try to find a solution.

My son rang me earlier and said that he has spoke to his boss again. The boss has now said if my son can get Ryan (the lad who used to do the job before my son started doing it) to cover the 2 wks whilst he'll be off and then ask someone to cover Ryan's job, he can have the time off. However, he will only pay him holiday pay for the 1st week, the 2nd week has to be unpaid. Not sure why he is doing this, but am I right in thinking that this would mean he would have 1 wks hol left to take? Also, surely it should be the boss's job to find cover, as that is what he has to do as a boss, manage his staff.

Well he has two choices now, doesn't he? He can stand on ceremony and tell the boss to sort out cover himself, in which case he will have neither holiday nor a job. He has no right to take leave that hasn't been approved, and "messy" or not, it wasn't approved. Or he can suck it up and get on with speaking to others to ask them if they can help.

As for what it means, that the second week would be unpaid, has he learned nothing from this? It doesn't matter what we, you or anyone else is "right in thinking" - the only thing that matters is what the boss is thinking and the way to find that out is to ask the boss. Preferably in writing. But "what someone thinks" is not the right answer - sorting things out properly with your boss is the right answer. If that isn't possible, then it is time to start thinking about whether this job is the right job for him. 

More things have come to light this evening. Following on from a chat that my son has had with his boss today,  it seems that the boss didn't realise how long the holiday was (11 days) when he first ok'd it back in Sept, and if he goes to his boss who is the one who approves holiday requests, he will be in trouble for telling my son he could have it, without properly looking into it......hence the reason why he has asked my son to try and get cover for it, then it will look better when he approaches his boss. As for my son sorthing things out properly, he has been trying to do that since he first started in Sept last year. When he has tried to get the holidays booked, he has always been told to wait as its too soon yet.

This is different to what you first said. 

If the boss said to wait, its too soon, then why on earth did you go ahead and book and pay for the holiday.

You previously said he agreed it, but it couldn't go in the diary. This is completely different. 

All you can do is stress to your son everything is in writing in future. Even his boss asking him to sort the cover should be in an email.  Too late now but in any future job its best to start as you mean to go on, email trail anything of importance. 

lisyloo

jack_tyler said:

Jillanddy said:

jack_tyler said:

Jillanddy said:

Sandtree said:

I'm personally not sure how I would take an interviewee telling me their reason for leaving their last job in under 6 months was because a holiday was cancelled and so they quit to be able to go on the hols. 

Whilst I certainly wouldn't recommend resigning (and most people can't afford such luxuries), if someone told me this whole story (not just that they quit because they weren't allowed to go on holiday when they wanted), I would probably give them the benefit of the doubt. Assuming they appeared to be a fit for the job I had, I would consider the balance of "maybe they aren't telling the whole truth" against "I respect someone who tried their best and was being a good son in special circumstances". After all, in the end I have two years to find out the whole truth! Whilst I can have some sympathy with the boss and his business need, he played his own 50% of the messy situation and ought to do more to try to find a solution.

My son rang me earlier and said that he has spoke to his boss again. The boss has now said if my son can get Ryan (the lad who used to do the job before my son started doing it) to cover the 2 wks whilst he'll be off and then ask someone to cover Ryan's job, he can have the time off. However, he will only pay him holiday pay for the 1st week, the 2nd week has to be unpaid. Not sure why he is doing this, but am I right in thinking that this would mean he would have 1 wks hol left to take? Also, surely it should be the boss's job to find cover, as that is what he has to do as a boss, manage his staff.

Well he has two choices now, doesn't he? He can stand on ceremony and tell the boss to sort out cover himself, in which case he will have neither holiday nor a job. He has no right to take leave that hasn't been approved, and "messy" or not, it wasn't approved. Or he can suck it up and get on with speaking to others to ask them if they can help.

As for what it means, that the second week would be unpaid, has he learned nothing from this? It doesn't matter what we, you or anyone else is "right in thinking" - the only thing that matters is what the boss is thinking and the way to find that out is to ask the boss. Preferably in writing. But "what someone thinks" is not the right answer - sorting things out properly with your boss is the right answer. If that isn't possible, then it is time to start thinking about whether this job is the right job for him. 

More things have come to light this evening. Following on from a chat that my son has had with his boss today,  it seems that the boss didn't realise how long the holiday was (11 days) when he first ok'd it back in Sept, and if he goes to his boss who is the one who approves holiday requests, he will be in trouble for telling my son he could have it, without properly looking into it......hence the reason why he has asked my son to try and get cover for it, then it will look better when he approaches his boss. As for my son sorthing things out properly, he has been trying to do that since he first started in Sept last year. When he has tried to get the holidays booked, he has always been told to wait as its too soon yet.

The time to sort it is before accepting the job offer.
companies are much more helpful at that point.

lisyloo

Spendless said:

Why would having 11 days holiday be a problem? 

A similar issue came up at my workplace yesterday and the issue is more days off than company policy allows in one go, which wasn't flagged to my colleague at their interview.   

If there is a financial liability and/or it’s important to you then you get it agreed in writing (email these days) before accepting the job offer.
most companies will give approval for arrangements that are already booked before you were subject to their policies, but they are far more obliging at offer/acceptance stage.

I accepted a job in October. I specified 3 things I wanted and got them all agreed very quickly including a holiday.

lisyloo

Spendless said:

Why would having 11 days holiday be a problem? 

I’ve worked at large companies before where they really do need to have fairly strict rules because it’s just too hard to manage with a 4 or 5 digit number of employees.

As soon a you say one person can have something then everyone wants it and it becomes impossible to manage. 

Perhaps in this case the existing staff have to cover and there are reasonable limits on that.

even in companies with strict policies there are still exceptions especially if you do lots of overtime and are flexible in return. However these are strictly exceptions and do not apply to everyone so it makes it easier to manage.

where you made a booking prior to knowing their policies it’s reasonable for that to be an exception.

getmore4less

jack_tyler said:

lisyloo said:

Probably won’t help you now, but I get it all in writing before I start.

is the holiday definitely still on? (Omicron spreading).
can you reveal the destination?

Yes the holiday is definitely still on, and its a cruise

A lot of cruises are getting cancelled and if you test positive good chance of getting kicked off into local quarantine.
A lot of not great report.

Caribbean has been a nightmare for cruise lines getting refused entry to ports.


Most cruise companies have flexibility on moving cruises.

getmore4less

Sandtree said:

Employers can cancel agreed holiday by giving double the notice of the duration of the holiday. Looks like he asked for 10 working days holiday so must be given 20 working days notice to cancel it even if it was previously approved. 

Statutory notice to not take holiday is just the same as the length of the holiday not double.

Contract can override that but we don't know the contract

Many contracts include the terms that allow notice to cancel holiday down to zero.

getmore4less

jack_tyler said:

Jillanddy said:

Sandtree said:

I'm personally not sure how I would take an interviewee telling me their reason for leaving their last job in under 6 months was because a holiday was cancelled and so they quit to be able to go on the hols. 

Whilst I certainly wouldn't recommend resigning (and most people can't afford such luxuries), if someone told me this whole story (not just that they quit because they weren't allowed to go on holiday when they wanted), I would probably give them the benefit of the doubt. Assuming they appeared to be a fit for the job I had, I would consider the balance of "maybe they aren't telling the whole truth" against "I respect someone who tried their best and was being a good son in special circumstances". After all, in the end I have two years to find out the whole truth! Whilst I can have some sympathy with the boss and his business need, he played his own 50% of the messy situation and ought to do more to try to find a solution.

My son rang me earlier and said that he has spoke to his boss again. The boss has now said if my son can get Ryan (the lad who used to do the job before my son started doing it) to cover the 2 wks whilst he'll be off and then ask someone to cover Ryan's job, he can have the time off. However, he will only pay him holiday pay for the 1st week, the 2nd week has to be unpaid. Not sure why he is doing this, but am I right in thinking that this would mean he would have 1 wks hol left to take? Also, surely it should be the boss's job to find cover, as that is what he has to do as a boss, manage his staff.

What other paid holiday has he had so far?

Holiday accrues at a rate of 1/12 on the 1st of the month in the first year.

What is the holiday year?

If calendar that's only 2/12 just under a week in Feb 1.4 weeks March.

Unpaid holiday does not come out of the holiday allowance.

getmore4less

jack_tyler said:

Jillanddy said:

jack_tyler said:

Jillanddy said:

Sandtree said:

I'm personally not sure how I would take an interviewee telling me their reason for leaving their last job in under 6 months was because a holiday was cancelled and so they quit to be able to go on the hols. 

Whilst I certainly wouldn't recommend resigning (and most people can't afford such luxuries), if someone told me this whole story (not just that they quit because they weren't allowed to go on holiday when they wanted), I would probably give them the benefit of the doubt. Assuming they appeared to be a fit for the job I had, I would consider the balance of "maybe they aren't telling the whole truth" against "I respect someone who tried their best and was being a good son in special circumstances". After all, in the end I have two years to find out the whole truth! Whilst I can have some sympathy with the boss and his business need, he played his own 50% of the messy situation and ought to do more to try to find a solution.

My son rang me earlier and said that he has spoke to his boss again. The boss has now said if my son can get Ryan (the lad who used to do the job before my son started doing it) to cover the 2 wks whilst he'll be off and then ask someone to cover Ryan's job, he can have the time off. However, he will only pay him holiday pay for the 1st week, the 2nd week has to be unpaid. Not sure why he is doing this, but am I right in thinking that this would mean he would have 1 wks hol left to take? Also, surely it should be the boss's job to find cover, as that is what he has to do as a boss, manage his staff.

Well he has two choices now, doesn't he? He can stand on ceremony and tell the boss to sort out cover himself, in which case he will have neither holiday nor a job. He has no right to take leave that hasn't been approved, and "messy" or not, it wasn't approved. Or he can suck it up and get on with speaking to others to ask them if they can help.

As for what it means, that the second week would be unpaid, has he learned nothing from this? It doesn't matter what we, you or anyone else is "right in thinking" - the only thing that matters is what the boss is thinking and the way to find that out is to ask the boss. Preferably in writing. But "what someone thinks" is not the right answer - sorting things out properly with your boss is the right answer. If that isn't possible, then it is time to start thinking about whether this job is the right job for him. 

More things have come to light this evening. Following on from a chat that my son has had with his boss today,  it seems that the boss didn't realise how long the holiday was (11 days) when he first ok'd it back in Sept, and if he goes to his boss who is the one who approves holiday requests, he will be in trouble for telling my son he could have it, without properly looking into it......hence the reason why he has asked my son to try and get cover for it, then it will look better when he approaches his boss. As for my son sorthing things out properly, he has been trying to do that since he first started in Sept last year. When he has tried to get the holidays booked, he has always been told to wait as its too soon yet.

That changes the balance.

Boss is trying to cover themselves.

Boss's Boss has yet to approve the holiday.

Boss's boss probably does not know about the situation yet.

Even if cover is found no guarantee the holiday will be approved.

Keep notice period in mind as that is the back stop for being able to reign.

I would be assisting making it happen the way the boss wants with finding cover and make sure the chain of command knows my position on the matter before the back stop of resignation.

Protection of the boss would unwind quickly if taking the time off was not approved.

Does son have Boss's boss ear?