Civil Enforcement Ltd. private parking fine, DCBL letters and LBA received.

Jazzmine24

Hello,

I've read through the NEWBIES thread and I'm still a little confused, so I was wondering if someone would be kind enough to help!

I think my confusion has also arisen due to researching into the 3 letter process with the debt company, and since my Letter Before Action was received from Civil Enforcement, I'm not sure where I stand or what to do now. I was originally advised to ignore all, however, since my friend recently paid 2x £350.00 + solicitor fee's to avoid a CCJ for a parking fine issued in 2017 (although she was legally parked) I've decided it's best to take action now, much like the advice in the thread.

So, what happened? Well, on the 3rd of April 2021 my cutch decided to blow and on a busy high street, and I managed to roll my car into a Private Carpark, located outside a restaurant. The restaurant was closed due to Covid guidance from the Government (non essential places closed etc). There was a written sign by the restaurant sating 'give your registration to the bar to avoid parking charge' as well as Private Parking signage to advise of times and how to pay. 

As you had to call to pay for a ticket, my partner got on the case whilst I called the AA. He had great difficulty connecting through to the number, with it constantly cutting out, an automated response would start to talk then the line would go dead and eventually, he managed to pay for a ticket. This was at 15:40 when the ticket started and ended at 16:00, costing £1.00. He was unable to request more time with the operator, as it stated the parking was only until 16:00. * I was convinced that the parking was free after 16:00 but since all of this, I am going to check the signage in the next few days to confirm, although this may have changed since. *  

He received a text message at 3:54 to say the parking for my car was due to expire and to pay more he would need to call the number. We ignored this, as we were under the impression that the parking was free after 16:00. When the AA man arrived, around 16:15, he made a joke to say he'd recently been given a private parking ticket and his boss said he would have to pay it himself if he got another. Sadly, I'm sure he's not laughing now, as he was unable to speak to an operator on the phone, the service was closed and didn't get a ticket (this took about 15 mins before he gave up). 

My car was observed between 15:27 and 16:49, with the T&C's of parking ticket made under 'Payment not made in accordance with the terms displayed on singe'. The first picture is me driving in and the second picture is of my car being towed out. 

I moved to a new address on the 1st of April and due to lockdown, not having a car (in repairs) and delays with the DVLA, my address wasn't officially changed on my license (etc) after my ticket was issued and sent to my old address. All letters between CEL and DCBL have been sent to my old address, but as I've mentioned I have ignored these. 

CEL have sent me 5 letters in total, 2 (without dates) instructing me of my charge, 'Action needed' dated 20/05/2021 and 'Final Reminder' on the 10/06/2021. 

DCBL have sent me 4 letters, 06/07/2021, 26/07/2021, 'Final notice of debt recovery' on the 24/08/2021 and 'Notice of intended legal action' on the 25/10/2021. 

I was then sent a LBA by CEL on the 22nd of December 2021, however, due to bank holidays and delays, this wasn't received until the 30th of December 2021, with 30 days to respond. 

I kindly ask, what do I do? (If I'm totally wrong with what I think I need to do below, please tell me! help!)

- In terms of the SAR I send to CEL, they can't provide me with details of the ticket as it wasn't P&D, but I can view the ticket times and charge on PhoneandDisplay myself, is this the same thing? can they prove the call my partner made to get the ticket on the automated service and the issues he had connecting through?

- Do I complain to the MP still? I believe I have a fair enough case, my car had broken down and I was a hazard on the road. We had issues getting a ticket and was unable to pay for more time after 16:00. Do I complain to the Restaurant even though I've never been there?

- In terms of the three letter process, have DCBL bought my debt despite the LBA being from the CEL? Can I send them a Notice of Condition Acceptance (to start the three letter process with them, including the SAR to CEL) and further ask for a DPA Subject Access Request to DCBL (etc)?

- Do I need to inform both parties that they have the wrong address and can I use this in my favour for more time?

* I will need to check the sign I know, so this is going to be done ASAP. I'm also sure that paying £1.00 for 20 mins isn't correct, hence why I was so convinced that I was in the right, but I understand now why I shouldn't have ignored them *

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated! I would also like to THANK YOU for the details on this forum already - it's been really positive for my mindset seeing those succeed and knowing I may not be in such a sh** pile after all

Coupon-mad

Yes you do the SAR so you can see their hand in readiness for their useless court claim.  Do also go on foot and get some photos and while you are there, why not try to replicate the call and have a passenger film your attempts to get through.

All useful evidence.

YES complain to the Restaurant and show them the photos of your car being towed out and ask if this is how they allow their parking agent to operate?  Ask them to please cancel this PCN or you will get the local paper to print a warning to boycott the place.

YES tell the local paper for publicity.  I think they'd like that photo of the broken down car being removed and the fact that the payment made just gave 20 minutes and the signal was awful.

YES complain to your local MP (your constituency).  There is new Government regulation coming in this year to stop the worst rogue conduct.

Ask your MP to urgently write to the Restaurant and CEL and the BPA about this case, and to alert Neil O'Brien MP about it (the BPA have publicly stated that he is the Minister responsible at the DLUHC).

There will be a court claim.  No biggie, no risk, no CCJ, no huge costs.  We win 99% of them here and CEL in particular, usually run away and discontinue before hearings.

And what three letter process, is it that rubbish about 'prove it'?!  This is not what we do.  No idea what you mean.   

DCB Ltd have not bought the debt.  They are just debt recovery goons to be ignored.  And they failed to 'recover' so they handed it back to CEL who will issue a claim themselves.

DCB Ltd are our of the equation.

CEL rejoice in having the ex Head of Legal from disgraced and defunct Wonga running their hopelessly disorganised 'Legal Dept'.

That is their calibre.  Be confident that you will win and don't be this daft:

Since my friend recently paid 2x £350.00 + solicitor fee's to avoid a CCJ for a parking fine issued in 2017.

Oh my God, why?  HOW MUCH?  Why?! Didn't they have access to the internet?  What is wrong with people...such a waste of money and simply not needed.  These cases are easy to defend and the specialists and experts are here.  We deal with CCJs and court claims galore and help people win these for free and we do this every day!

Anyway first things first:

SAR and ADDRESS DATA RECTIFICATION NOTICE to CEL's data protection email address telling them to ERASE the wrong address.

Do that immediately by email as the NEWBIES thread explains in the SAR section.

Also SEPARATELY email CEL's ordinary info@ or legal@ email to state you are seeking debt advice and want the case 'on hold' for 30 days.

Then crack on with the complaints and local paper publicity.  The restaurant won't like it but that's the point.  Presumably they contracted this aggressive bunch who operate 'free' because they aim to issue as many PCNs as possible.  If you lie down with dogs, you get fleas.

Jazzmine24

Hey Coupon-mad, thank you so much for the information. I waited to reply until I saw the sign again and took photos. So the sign states:

”£1 per hour (not available from 4pm to midnight) payment must be made within 10 minutes of arriving at the premises” 

“Terms and conditions: this is private land property. These parking terms apply 24 hours a day” 

My parking charge is from 03/04/2021 15:27:45 to 16:49:03 

Am I right in saying this hasn’t been charged in accordance to their T&Cs? As mentioned, my partner had issues paying for the ticket and was 3 mins over the 10 mins grace, where our £1 (one hour) parking charge started at 15:40.

Could you please confirm whether to stop follow your advice above and continue with the SAR request? Have they unlawfully issued me this fine per their T&Cs? 

Really appreciate your help already, so thank you  

Coupon-mad

Carry on.  Nothing has changed but the ticket wasn't 'unlawfully' issued.  Unfairly.

Redx

It's not a fine , it's an invoice for alleged breach of contract

It's not unlawful because that implies they broke a law , a law that doesn't exist !! It's an unregulated industry !

Follow all the advice given to you , every piece , especially emailing a SAR. 👍👍

Trainerman

Could you post actual pictures of the sign(s)? From what you quote, there seems to be an ambiguity in them and any ambiguity in the signs must, by law, be decided in the consumer's favour.

D_P_Dance

Indeed, read this

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/4-383-2653?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

Jazzmine24

Thanks for the comments, I’ll get on with the advice above as soon as possible. 

I’ve attached the picture of the sign below; let me know your thoughts! 

Trainerman

I will be interested in the views of others, but to me there is nothing on that sign to say that you cannot park after midnight, nor that you make any sort of agreement, so what 'contravention' has occurred?. The experts will confirm or otherwise but I see no contract, or in the alternative frustration  of contract. To me, it just says that the 'phone to pay' is not available. So, if you cannot pay, due to their inability to make arrangements it is no contravention.

D_P_Dance

It is ambiguous imo

It might mean free parking between 4pm and midnight, it might not.  

Coupon-mad

Looks like no contract is offered (available) between 4pm and midnight but when did you park?