UKPC Wrong VRN on the PCN

kurca88

Hi @Fruitcake,

You helped so much and I try to understand all abbreviations : ) 

I will wait for their first move and then I will inform you again.

Fruitcake

D_P_Dance said:

I'm not quite sure why you are supporting the PPC's error by suggesting it is of minor consequence.

What makes you think that I am supporting the PPC?  

The fact that you mentioned de minimis with regards to an error made by the PPC.

Fruitcake

kurca88 said:

Hi @Fruitcake,

You helped so much and I try to understand all abbreviations : ) 

I will wait for their first move and then I will inform you again.

Acronyms and abbreviations for this forum are in the fifth post of the NEWBIES.

With regards to clarification, the NTK does not supersede the NTD, it is in addition to it, but goes to a different entity.

There are a number of entities who can be liable for a parking charge

The driver 
The day to day keeper
The registered Keeper
The owner
The hirer/lessee


The date of the alleged event is day zero.
Where no NTD is given, the NTK must arrive by day 14 for a keeper to be held liable.
Where an NTD is given, the NTK must arrive between day 28 and 56 in order for the keeper to be held liable.
If the vehicle is hired or leased, then there are timescales by which an NTH must be given.

In addition to timescales, the correct PoFA wording must also be used, and must contain information required by the PoFA in order for an entity to be liable.

kurca88

Thank you very much @Fruitcake . That information is more than a help, I will keep them in mind. 

Coupon-mad

Very glad we stopped you appealing telling them the VRM was wrong.  Don't even do that when the PCN arrives by post!  Not in your own words, anyway.

UKPC do seem to do this deliberately to hook drivers to do hopeless appeals early.

Fruitcake

Coupon-mad said:

Very glad we stopped you appealing telling them the VRM was wrong.  Don't even do that when the PCN arrives by post!  Not in your own words, anyway.

UKPC do seem to do this deliberately to hook drivers to do hopeless appeals early.

Precisely so. This is not about an NTD with an incorrect VRM, it's about no valid NTD being given at all. The only thing that was left on the car was a piece of irrelevant litter.

kurca88

Thank you @Coupon-mad and @Fruitcake . It has been around 27 days since the incorrect PCN in the first place. I will inform you if they will send any further documents regarding the wrong PCN. 

Fruitcake

I would imagine you might get an NTK towards the end of this week. Irrespective of when it arrives. show us a redacted copy of it before you do anything else. Please leave the dates showing.

I suspect there will be at least two things wrong with it. 
By carefully reading the PoFA, see if you can work out what they will be.

kurca88

Hi @Fruitcake and @Coupon-mad and other friends, 

Now a new letter has been delivered to my home. It's right side is a new Parking Charge Notice with a date of 10.01.2022 (with a new reference number). 

Every detail is the same with the original PCN but it is newly dated. It was created as like the wrong parking happened at 10.01.2022 rather than 06.12.2021. 

Apart from that the left-hand side of the letter mentions that:

'' This is not a circular.

 Dear Name and surname,

This Parking Charge Notice supercedes 1483xxxxxx (old reference number) which has been reissued. 

Re: Parking Charge - Notice to Keeper

Your vehicle was recorded on private property in breach of the following terms and conditions of parking: 

Not Parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space. 

Adress, on the 06/12/2021 and time.

The driver of the above vehicle breached the terms and conditions of parking which were clearly and prominently displayed on our park signs. These terms and conditions were agreed by the driver when your vehicle was parked on private land. ,we therefore had reasonable cause to obtain your details as you were the Registered Keeper of the vehicle at the time of parking. 

The driver is required to pay the parking charge. UK PC do not know the name and address of the driver. We therefore invite you, the Registered Keeper, to pay the Parking Charge or provide us with the name and current address of the driver so that we may write to them and request he payment and you should also pass this notice to the driver. 

If, after a period of 28 days, (beginning with the day after this Notice is given), the amount requested in this Notice has not been paid in full (or we have not been informed of the driver's name and current address) we will pass the charge to debt recovery. 

Paymeny is required to be made to UKPC (the creditor) by the driver within 28 days from the date of this Notice. '' 


Now, Could you help me with the next step, please?

Fruitcake

I suggest you follow the advice I gave you in this post, beginning with the paragraph, "IF you receive a NTK ..."

UKPC Wrong VRN on the PCN — MoneySavingExpert Forum

You have now received a NTK. You need to carefully compare it with the requirements of para 8 of Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 to understand why it is incapable of holding the keeper liable.

Hint: -
1) There was never a NTD with your vehicle's VRM left on the registered keeper's vehicle. In other words, there was no NTD.
2) Since no NTD was issued, the NTK has arrived too late for keeper liability to apply.
(Any images the PPC may have provided will be for a piece of litter with the VRM of another vehicle.)


You should also: -
Complain to the landowner.
Complain to the BPA and DVLA and the ICO that your your personal data has been obtained and processed without reason. No NTD for your vehicle was ever issued therefore UKPC had no right to unlawfully obtain and process your personal data.
Complain to your MP.

Again, this is nothing to do with an incorrect VRM, so do not mention it. This is entirely to do with no NTD for your vehicle ever being being issued.