UKPC Wrong VRN on the PCN

kurca88

Hi everybody,

I have been reading for the last two days but I could not find the correct template to appeal a wrong VRN on the PCN from UKPC.

They put the PCN to windscreen at 06.12.2021 and now I have a few questions:

1) What is the correct date for day 26 from 06.12.2021?
2) Is it ok to appeal from UKPC website appeal section or Should I send my appeal via post office?
3) I could not find a finalized template to appeal wrong VRN on the website but I did a merge of all information. Is the appeal letter enough to send UKPC:

'' Dear Sir/Madam,

I'm responding to Parking Charge Notice Ref 1xxxxxxxxxxx.

As the Parking Charge Notice mentioned above had a different Vehicle Registration Number (VRN) to that of the vehicle, you have failed to meet the requirements of PoFA 2012 schedule 4 para. 8 in that the windscreen ticket should 'specify the vehicle'. In other words, I see that this does not have the correct car registration on it, so it is a nullity.


You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Therefore I am under no obligation to name the driver and will not be doing so, and will not respond to any further communication asking for the drivers details from yourselves or debt collection agencies.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment.

I require you to cancel this charge immediately and remove my personal data from your systems within 21 days.


Yours


Registered keeper."


Thank you for your time and consideration in advance.

Fruitcake

Personally I don't think you should appeal the NTD at all, but should wait to see if the keeper gets a NTK through the post.

Either, UKPC will use the incorrect VRM when they apply to the DVLA for the keeper's details, in which case you will never get a NTK, or they will use the correct VRM which will not match that on the NTD, giving you ammunition for when the keeper appeals.

The most important thing is not to reveal the driver's identity. 

It is often thought that PPCs deliberately put incorrect information on a NTD in the hope someone will be foolish enough to 'phone and blab about the driver's identity.

How different is the VRM? Are you talking about one character difference or a completely different VRM altogether? If it is for a completely different vehicle then someone else may have got your NTD. 

If you do get a NTK, then use the template in blue text and add a one liner stating that no NTD for vehicle registration X was given, therefore the strict requirements of the PoFA have not been met and the keeper cannot be held liable.
If it is rejected, then you show the PPCs own proof that no NTD with the correct VRM was issued.

kurca88

Hi Fruitcake,

it is only one letter missing. The last letter should be 'K' rather than it was written as 'L'. I checked the pictures of the incident and the correct VRN can be seen in those pictures. 

It has been 24 day since the date of PCN and some of the members suggest to make an appeal on day 26 and some of them suggest not. 

I am confused : ) 

Which blue text did you mention above? 

Thank you very much.

D_P_Dance

Many judges regard these claims as a waste of court time and some can get quite snippy with the PPC, read this

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/de minimis

Also, have you seen this?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3229165/Is-PROOF-private-parking-firms-scamming-motorists-Drivers-say-timings-photos-doctored-legally-parked-cars-issued-fines.html

Umkomaas

Go with @Fruitcake's advice. Standard advice for a windscreen ticket (Notice to Driver - NtD) is to appeal at day 26, but that's if there are no potential loopholes in the NtD. There clearly is in your case, and that definitely plays to your advantage and gives you a very strong case for a cancellation.

Either UKPC will be chasing the wrong registered keeper (the one with an 'L' rather than 'K' in their VRM), or if UKPC realise their error and change L to K to access your data from the DVLA, then they're stuffed (and you're safe) under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) as everything in a NtK must mirror exactly the details of the NtD. 

All above contingent on the driver's identity not being revealed to UKPC.

Fruitcake

kurca88 said:

Hi Fruitcake,

it is only one letter missing. The last letter should be 'K' rather than it was written as 'L'. I checked the pictures of the incident and the correct VRN can be seen in those pictures. 

It has been 24 day since the date of PCN and some of the members suggest to make an appeal on day 26 and some of them suggest not. 

I am confused : ) 

Which blue text did you mention above? 

Thank you very much.

The advice to appeal around day 26 is what we normally recommend where a NTD has been given, but since there is an error on the one placed on your car, then I suggest you wait to see if you get an NTK.
You might not, in which case there is no point in alerting the PPC to the fact that they have made a mistake. If you do get a NTK then either the VRM will be incorrect, or it will be correct but won't match the VRM on the NTD.

The keeper has protections in law that the driver does not, which is why I suggest you wait to see if the keeper does actually get a NTK.

The appeal template in blue text is in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES that asks everyone to read it first. There are five stickies and they are always at the top of the forum.

The NEWBIES has lots of information about this unregulated industry including an initial appeal template, and links to template points for a PoPLA appeal that you may need later.
The NEWBIES also has information about the strict requirements of the PoFA 2012, including timescales that must be adhered to in order for a PPC to hold a keeper liable.

I suggest you also complain to your MP that you (the registered keeper) have had a NTD handed to you by The Driver, for a completely different vehicle left on your car, demanding money to which they are not entitled.

Fruitcake

D_P_Dance said:

Many judges regard these claims as a waste of court time and some can get quite snippy with the PPC, read this

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/de minimis

Also, have you seen this?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3229165/Is-PROOF-private-parking-firms-scamming-motorists-Drivers-say-timings-photos-doctored-legally-parked-cars-issued-fines.html

I'm not quite sure why you are supporting the PPC's error by suggesting it is of minor consequence.

kurca88

Thank you @Umkomaas, some of the members did an appeal whether it has a correct VRN or not and it made me confused about my next move. 

That might be correct to wait for their first action after day 28. 

Thank you very much again.

kurca88

Hi again @Fruitcake

Now I get your point on waiting for an official NTK.

If they will send a new PCN which supersedes the previous one, it would be a new mistake for them. 

If they will send a NTK about the PCN in the first place, I will send them an explanation about that is not my VRN and I am responding to them as the legal keeper of the car (RK).

I will update news once I will get any document from them in the following weeks. 

Best Regards

Fruitcake

I do not wish to appear rude, but you do not as yet appear to understand the nuances and differences between a NTD and NTK and the relevant dates required by the PoFA to hold a keeper liable.

I suggest you do not go off piste with your appeal. 

IF you get a NTK, then appeal using the template in blue text. Send it unaltered from The Keeper, save for a one liner that no NTD with your vehicle's VRM was given, therefore the keeper cannot be liable.
If you want to spell it out for the PPC, then add another one liner that an NTD for a completely different vehicle was left on your vehicle.

D_P_Dance

I'm not quite sure why you are supporting the PPC's error by suggesting it is of minor consequence.

What makes you think that I am supporting the PPC?