Council tax banding

Purlain

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

JIL said:

I used right move or zoopla, which had sold prices on it and also current properties for sale which had floor plans and council tax banding.

I'm not sure why you are having trouble with links, the link I provided earlier has links on it to every thing you need to know.

Read all this.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/council-tax-bands-change

Hi, it is so encouraging to see so many people here taking the challenge to the tribunal and successfully have the band lowered even before the hearing taking place. I have my remote hearing booked in May 2022.
My house used to have a garage to the side. Before the original valuation in 1990s, the garage was converted to a two storey house by the previous owner. Hence, it was valued as the highest among all the properties on the same street and put in Band E. However the garage-converted house was then completely separated from the main house on land registry and subsequently sold as a single bedroom house by the previous owner. This single bedroom house has since been paying its own council tax in Band C and rented out. In 2010, I bought the main house without the garage-converted house for the price of £250k. However, the main house I bought still remains in the same band E despite the fact it is now actually one of the smallest and lowest valued properties on the same street due to the garage-converted house split from the main house. Not only the main house has become smaller compared to the other similar properties, it has also suffered loss of privacy because the garage-converted house has its back door opening to the main house's garden. Due to these facts, the local estate agents all agreed that my house is valued at least 15 to 20% less than the similar properties. Shockingly, it remains in the highest band among all the properties on the same street. In fact, nearly 80% of the properties on this street are in the lower band D. I appealed to the valuation office last year thinking my case was so straightforward but only for them to decline and insist that they had to stick to the valuation done in 1990s. 
I am now hoping to receive a call from them to offer to drop it to band D before the hearing date. I wonder if it is a bullying strategy by VOA to reject all the appeals even there is sufficient evidence to lower the band expecting most of the people wouldn't have the energy or knowledge to take it to the tribunal.  

If you bought the house 11 years ago, how were you able to make a valid appeal? 


I don't know if "bullying" is the right term. They may actually have evidence to support their belief Band E is correct. But it could be a generic rejection letter sent because they have had no time to investigate or as you  imply because they hope some CT payers will decide the matter is not worth pursuing. 

Does it matter how long ago the house was purchased? They didn't reject it because it was bought 11 years. I actually emailed them back to challenge their decision. They just kept giving the same reason that it was the right valuation in 1990s. 

A valid appeal can only be made within 6 months of becoming the CT payer. As your home was part of a larger property it may be that the VOA believed that your house had only just been split into two. But they would be mistaken if in fact it had been split (and there were 2 bands) more than 6 months before your appeal was made and your appeal would be invalid.

Thanks for the information. 
I have looked at the government website again. The rule on the grounds for appealing after six months is listed in the following paragraph copied from the website: 

If you disagree with the decision

You can appeal the decision in some cases. You’ll be told if you can appeal when you get your decision.

If you’ve been paying Council Tax on your property for less than 6 months you usually have the right to appeal the decision. If, for example, you move into a property with your partner who’s been paying Council Tax for more than 6 months, you cannot appeal the decision.

If you’ve been paying your property’s Council Tax for 6 months or more, you can only appeal the decision if your:

• property has changed - for example, it’s been demolished, split into multiple properties or merged into one
• property’s use has changed - for example, part of your property is now used for business
• local area has changed - for example, a new supermarket has been built
• property’s band has been changed by the VOA in the last 6 months

If you can appeal, you must do it within 3 months of getting the decision. You may be able to get the time limit extended if you cannot apply in time.

Based on the above paragraph, am I right to say that the split does not have to be within 6 months for the appeal to be valid?

Thank you

I sort of covered this in a previous post, but I will expand on it.


If you occupied a dwelling and sold off part which then became a separate dwelling, you can appeal as your home is effectively reduced in size. But if you move into a house which has already been split and the split part given its own CT band you cannot validly appeal after 6 months on the grounds your home has been split into two. So my opinion is your appeal is invalid.

Thank you for the detailed information.
I wonder why this is not published on government website. All I can find is the paragraph copied in my previous post which has no mention about this. 

Purlain

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

ProDave said:

Kuga247 said:

It’s not actually the council who set the banding it’s VOA the council just take our money you sure it was the council who phoned?

It was the person that was dealing with the appeal, it may have been  the VOA but what does it matter?  You appeal your banding, they make you sweat and when it looked like you were going to actually attend the appeal hearing they gave in and offered a lower banding.

Short sightedness on the part of the VOA caseworker (or Assessor if in Scotland). They should have decided if the band could be reduced before sending any evidence out, would have saved them a lot of time and trouble.

Does this mean if VOA does not send me the evidence by the deadline of 6 weeks prior to the hearing date, it is very likely that they have already decided to give in and drop the band? 

Not exactly.


They must send you the evidence or inform you that they now agree to your request for a lower band. They should not leave you wondering what is going to happen. Also they don't "give in", if they decide to reduce your band it will because they have examined all the available evidence and in light of this believe the current band is in fact too high. 

Based on your experience, if they don't send me the evidence by 6 weeks prior to the hearing date, does this mean it is likely that they have decided to drop the band and settle outside the tribunal? or does this just mean that they believe their case is so strong to win at the tribunal that they don't even need to provide further evidence? 

lincroft1710

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

JIL said:

I used right move or zoopla, which had sold prices on it and also current properties for sale which had floor plans and council tax banding.

I'm not sure why you are having trouble with links, the link I provided earlier has links on it to every thing you need to know.

Read all this.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/council-tax-bands-change

Hi, it is so encouraging to see so many people here taking the challenge to the tribunal and successfully have the band lowered even before the hearing taking place. I have my remote hearing booked in May 2022.
My house used to have a garage to the side. Before the original valuation in 1990s, the garage was converted to a two storey house by the previous owner. Hence, it was valued as the highest among all the properties on the same street and put in Band E. However the garage-converted house was then completely separated from the main house on land registry and subsequently sold as a single bedroom house by the previous owner. This single bedroom house has since been paying its own council tax in Band C and rented out. In 2010, I bought the main house without the garage-converted house for the price of £250k. However, the main house I bought still remains in the same band E despite the fact it is now actually one of the smallest and lowest valued properties on the same street due to the garage-converted house split from the main house. Not only the main house has become smaller compared to the other similar properties, it has also suffered loss of privacy because the garage-converted house has its back door opening to the main house's garden. Due to these facts, the local estate agents all agreed that my house is valued at least 15 to 20% less than the similar properties. Shockingly, it remains in the highest band among all the properties on the same street. In fact, nearly 80% of the properties on this street are in the lower band D. I appealed to the valuation office last year thinking my case was so straightforward but only for them to decline and insist that they had to stick to the valuation done in 1990s. 
I am now hoping to receive a call from them to offer to drop it to band D before the hearing date. I wonder if it is a bullying strategy by VOA to reject all the appeals even there is sufficient evidence to lower the band expecting most of the people wouldn't have the energy or knowledge to take it to the tribunal.  

If you bought the house 11 years ago, how were you able to make a valid appeal? 


I don't know if "bullying" is the right term. They may actually have evidence to support their belief Band E is correct. But it could be a generic rejection letter sent because they have had no time to investigate or as you  imply because they hope some CT payers will decide the matter is not worth pursuing. 

Does it matter how long ago the house was purchased? They didn't reject it because it was bought 11 years. I actually emailed them back to challenge their decision. They just kept giving the same reason that it was the right valuation in 1990s. 

A valid appeal can only be made within 6 months of becoming the CT payer. As your home was part of a larger property it may be that the VOA believed that your house had only just been split into two. But they would be mistaken if in fact it had been split (and there were 2 bands) more than 6 months before your appeal was made and your appeal would be invalid.

Thanks for the information. 
I have looked at the government website again. The rule on the grounds for appealing after six months is listed in the following paragraph copied from the website: 

If you disagree with the decision

You can appeal the decision in some cases. You’ll be told if you can appeal when you get your decision.

If you’ve been paying Council Tax on your property for less than 6 months you usually have the right to appeal the decision. If, for example, you move into a property with your partner who’s been paying Council Tax for more than 6 months, you cannot appeal the decision.

If you’ve been paying your property’s Council Tax for 6 months or more, you can only appeal the decision if your:

• property has changed - for example, it’s been demolished, split into multiple properties or merged into one
• property’s use has changed - for example, part of your property is now used for business
• local area has changed - for example, a new supermarket has been built
• property’s band has been changed by the VOA in the last 6 months

If you can appeal, you must do it within 3 months of getting the decision. You may be able to get the time limit extended if you cannot apply in time.

Based on the above paragraph, am I right to say that the split does not have to be within 6 months for the appeal to be valid?

Thank you

I sort of covered this in a previous post, but I will expand on it.


If you occupied a dwelling and sold off part which then became a separate dwelling, you can appeal as your home is effectively reduced in size. But if you move into a house which has already been split and the split part given its own CT band you cannot validly appeal after 6 months on the grounds your home has been split into two. So my opinion is your appeal is invalid.

Thank you for the detailed information.
I wonder why this is not published on government website. All I can find is the paragraph copied in my previous post which has no mention about this. 

It is interpretation of what was intended by that part of the legislation.


If a house is split into two and thus there needs to be  2 CT bands then an appeal can be made to effect this.


If a house has already been split into two and there are 2 CT bands, then there is no need for an appeal. Hence your appeal appears to be invalid.


In their attempt to make matters easier to understand Govt websites often don't tell the whole story or unintentionally mislead.

Purlain

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

JIL said:

I used right move or zoopla, which had sold prices on it and also current properties for sale which had floor plans and council tax banding.

I'm not sure why you are having trouble with links, the link I provided earlier has links on it to every thing you need to know.

Read all this.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/council-tax-bands-change

Hi, it is so encouraging to see so many people here taking the challenge to the tribunal and successfully have the band lowered even before the hearing taking place. I have my remote hearing booked in May 2022.
My house used to have a garage to the side. Before the original valuation in 1990s, the garage was converted to a two storey house by the previous owner. Hence, it was valued as the highest among all the properties on the same street and put in Band E. However the garage-converted house was then completely separated from the main house on land registry and subsequently sold as a single bedroom house by the previous owner. This single bedroom house has since been paying its own council tax in Band C and rented out. In 2010, I bought the main house without the garage-converted house for the price of £250k. However, the main house I bought still remains in the same band E despite the fact it is now actually one of the smallest and lowest valued properties on the same street due to the garage-converted house split from the main house. Not only the main house has become smaller compared to the other similar properties, it has also suffered loss of privacy because the garage-converted house has its back door opening to the main house's garden. Due to these facts, the local estate agents all agreed that my house is valued at least 15 to 20% less than the similar properties. Shockingly, it remains in the highest band among all the properties on the same street. In fact, nearly 80% of the properties on this street are in the lower band D. I appealed to the valuation office last year thinking my case was so straightforward but only for them to decline and insist that they had to stick to the valuation done in 1990s. 
I am now hoping to receive a call from them to offer to drop it to band D before the hearing date. I wonder if it is a bullying strategy by VOA to reject all the appeals even there is sufficient evidence to lower the band expecting most of the people wouldn't have the energy or knowledge to take it to the tribunal.  

If you bought the house 11 years ago, how were you able to make a valid appeal? 


I don't know if "bullying" is the right term. They may actually have evidence to support their belief Band E is correct. But it could be a generic rejection letter sent because they have had no time to investigate or as you  imply because they hope some CT payers will decide the matter is not worth pursuing. 

Does it matter how long ago the house was purchased? They didn't reject it because it was bought 11 years. I actually emailed them back to challenge their decision. They just kept giving the same reason that it was the right valuation in 1990s. 

A valid appeal can only be made within 6 months of becoming the CT payer. As your home was part of a larger property it may be that the VOA believed that your house had only just been split into two. But they would be mistaken if in fact it had been split (and there were 2 bands) more than 6 months before your appeal was made and your appeal would be invalid.

Thanks for the information. 
I have looked at the government website again. The rule on the grounds for appealing after six months is listed in the following paragraph copied from the website: 

If you disagree with the decision

You can appeal the decision in some cases. You’ll be told if you can appeal when you get your decision.

If you’ve been paying Council Tax on your property for less than 6 months you usually have the right to appeal the decision. If, for example, you move into a property with your partner who’s been paying Council Tax for more than 6 months, you cannot appeal the decision.

If you’ve been paying your property’s Council Tax for 6 months or more, you can only appeal the decision if your:

• property has changed - for example, it’s been demolished, split into multiple properties or merged into one
• property’s use has changed - for example, part of your property is now used for business
• local area has changed - for example, a new supermarket has been built
• property’s band has been changed by the VOA in the last 6 months

If you can appeal, you must do it within 3 months of getting the decision. You may be able to get the time limit extended if you cannot apply in time.

Based on the above paragraph, am I right to say that the split does not have to be within 6 months for the appeal to be valid?

Thank you

I sort of covered this in a previous post, but I will expand on it.


If you occupied a dwelling and sold off part which then became a separate dwelling, you can appeal as your home is effectively reduced in size. But if you move into a house which has already been split and the split part given its own CT band you cannot validly appeal after 6 months on the grounds your home has been split into two. So my opinion is your appeal is invalid.

Thank you for the detailed information.
I wonder why this is not published on government website. All I can find is the paragraph copied in my previous post which has no mention about this. 

It is interpretation of what was intended by that part of the legislation.


If a house is split into two and thus there needs to be  2 CT bands then an appeal can be made to effect this.


If a house has already been split into two and there are 2 CT bands, then there is no need for an appeal. Hence your appeal appears to be invalid.


In their attempt to make matters easier to understand Govt websites often don't tell the whole story or unintentionally mislead.

I understanding the logic you are trying to explain.
However, this part of the legislation is about the criteria for the initial appeal. If the criteria is not explained in full details on the government website, it will only result in unnecessary amount of invalid appeals submitted, only to be rejected after VOA have checked the cases. Wouldn't it save VOA time to publish the full details of criteria so people wouldn't even bother to submit the invalid appeals? 

lincroft1710

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

JIL said:

I used right move or zoopla, which had sold prices on it and also current properties for sale which had floor plans and council tax banding.

I'm not sure why you are having trouble with links, the link I provided earlier has links on it to every thing you need to know.

Read all this.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/council-tax-bands-change

Hi, it is so encouraging to see so many people here taking the challenge to the tribunal and successfully have the band lowered even before the hearing taking place. I have my remote hearing booked in May 2022.
My house used to have a garage to the side. Before the original valuation in 1990s, the garage was converted to a two storey house by the previous owner. Hence, it was valued as the highest among all the properties on the same street and put in Band E. However the garage-converted house was then completely separated from the main house on land registry and subsequently sold as a single bedroom house by the previous owner. This single bedroom house has since been paying its own council tax in Band C and rented out. In 2010, I bought the main house without the garage-converted house for the price of £250k. However, the main house I bought still remains in the same band E despite the fact it is now actually one of the smallest and lowest valued properties on the same street due to the garage-converted house split from the main house. Not only the main house has become smaller compared to the other similar properties, it has also suffered loss of privacy because the garage-converted house has its back door opening to the main house's garden. Due to these facts, the local estate agents all agreed that my house is valued at least 15 to 20% less than the similar properties. Shockingly, it remains in the highest band among all the properties on the same street. In fact, nearly 80% of the properties on this street are in the lower band D. I appealed to the valuation office last year thinking my case was so straightforward but only for them to decline and insist that they had to stick to the valuation done in 1990s. 
I am now hoping to receive a call from them to offer to drop it to band D before the hearing date. I wonder if it is a bullying strategy by VOA to reject all the appeals even there is sufficient evidence to lower the band expecting most of the people wouldn't have the energy or knowledge to take it to the tribunal.  

If you bought the house 11 years ago, how were you able to make a valid appeal? 


I don't know if "bullying" is the right term. They may actually have evidence to support their belief Band E is correct. But it could be a generic rejection letter sent because they have had no time to investigate or as you  imply because they hope some CT payers will decide the matter is not worth pursuing. 

Does it matter how long ago the house was purchased? They didn't reject it because it was bought 11 years. I actually emailed them back to challenge their decision. They just kept giving the same reason that it was the right valuation in 1990s. 

A valid appeal can only be made within 6 months of becoming the CT payer. As your home was part of a larger property it may be that the VOA believed that your house had only just been split into two. But they would be mistaken if in fact it had been split (and there were 2 bands) more than 6 months before your appeal was made and your appeal would be invalid.

Thanks for the information. 
I have looked at the government website again. The rule on the grounds for appealing after six months is listed in the following paragraph copied from the website: 

If you disagree with the decision

You can appeal the decision in some cases. You’ll be told if you can appeal when you get your decision.

If you’ve been paying Council Tax on your property for less than 6 months you usually have the right to appeal the decision. If, for example, you move into a property with your partner who’s been paying Council Tax for more than 6 months, you cannot appeal the decision.

If you’ve been paying your property’s Council Tax for 6 months or more, you can only appeal the decision if your:

• property has changed - for example, it’s been demolished, split into multiple properties or merged into one
• property’s use has changed - for example, part of your property is now used for business
• local area has changed - for example, a new supermarket has been built
• property’s band has been changed by the VOA in the last 6 months

If you can appeal, you must do it within 3 months of getting the decision. You may be able to get the time limit extended if you cannot apply in time.

Based on the above paragraph, am I right to say that the split does not have to be within 6 months for the appeal to be valid?

Thank you

I sort of covered this in a previous post, but I will expand on it.


If you occupied a dwelling and sold off part which then became a separate dwelling, you can appeal as your home is effectively reduced in size. But if you move into a house which has already been split and the split part given its own CT band you cannot validly appeal after 6 months on the grounds your home has been split into two. So my opinion is your appeal is invalid.

Thank you for the detailed information.
I wonder why this is not published on government website. All I can find is the paragraph copied in my previous post which has no mention about this. 

It is interpretation of what was intended by that part of the legislation.


If a house is split into two and thus there needs to be  2 CT bands then an appeal can be made to effect this.


If a house has already been split into two and there are 2 CT bands, then there is no need for an appeal. Hence your appeal appears to be invalid.


In their attempt to make matters easier to understand Govt websites often don't tell the whole story or unintentionally mislead.

I understanding the logic you are trying to explain.
However, this part of the legislation is about the criteria for the initial appeal. If the criteria is not explained in full details on the government website, it will only result in unnecessary amount of invalid appeals submitted, only to be rejected after VOA have checked the cases. Wouldn't it save VOA time to publish the full details of criteria so people wouldn't even bother to submit the invalid appeals? 

Cases such as yours are extremely rare ,almost unique.  It is not the VOA's job to publish guidance other than that in the Council Tax Manual (available free online). CT has been around for almost 30 yrs and the number of invalid appeals made through misunderstanding would be infinitesimal. I don't think I ever came across one in my 12 yrs of dealing with CT appeals. 

Purlain

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

JIL said:

I used right move or zoopla, which had sold prices on it and also current properties for sale which had floor plans and council tax banding.

I'm not sure why you are having trouble with links, the link I provided earlier has links on it to every thing you need to know.

Read all this.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/council-tax-bands-change

Hi, it is so encouraging to see so many people here taking the challenge to the tribunal and successfully have the band lowered even before the hearing taking place. I have my remote hearing booked in May 2022.
My house used to have a garage to the side. Before the original valuation in 1990s, the garage was converted to a two storey house by the previous owner. Hence, it was valued as the highest among all the properties on the same street and put in Band E. However the garage-converted house was then completely separated from the main house on land registry and subsequently sold as a single bedroom house by the previous owner. This single bedroom house has since been paying its own council tax in Band C and rented out. In 2010, I bought the main house without the garage-converted house for the price of £250k. However, the main house I bought still remains in the same band E despite the fact it is now actually one of the smallest and lowest valued properties on the same street due to the garage-converted house split from the main house. Not only the main house has become smaller compared to the other similar properties, it has also suffered loss of privacy because the garage-converted house has its back door opening to the main house's garden. Due to these facts, the local estate agents all agreed that my house is valued at least 15 to 20% less than the similar properties. Shockingly, it remains in the highest band among all the properties on the same street. In fact, nearly 80% of the properties on this street are in the lower band D. I appealed to the valuation office last year thinking my case was so straightforward but only for them to decline and insist that they had to stick to the valuation done in 1990s. 
I am now hoping to receive a call from them to offer to drop it to band D before the hearing date. I wonder if it is a bullying strategy by VOA to reject all the appeals even there is sufficient evidence to lower the band expecting most of the people wouldn't have the energy or knowledge to take it to the tribunal.  

If you bought the house 11 years ago, how were you able to make a valid appeal? 


I don't know if "bullying" is the right term. They may actually have evidence to support their belief Band E is correct. But it could be a generic rejection letter sent because they have had no time to investigate or as you  imply because they hope some CT payers will decide the matter is not worth pursuing. 

Does it matter how long ago the house was purchased? They didn't reject it because it was bought 11 years. I actually emailed them back to challenge their decision. They just kept giving the same reason that it was the right valuation in 1990s. 

A valid appeal can only be made within 6 months of becoming the CT payer. As your home was part of a larger property it may be that the VOA believed that your house had only just been split into two. But they would be mistaken if in fact it had been split (and there were 2 bands) more than 6 months before your appeal was made and your appeal would be invalid.

Thanks for the information. 
I have looked at the government website again. The rule on the grounds for appealing after six months is listed in the following paragraph copied from the website: 

If you disagree with the decision

You can appeal the decision in some cases. You’ll be told if you can appeal when you get your decision.

If you’ve been paying Council Tax on your property for less than 6 months you usually have the right to appeal the decision. If, for example, you move into a property with your partner who’s been paying Council Tax for more than 6 months, you cannot appeal the decision.

If you’ve been paying your property’s Council Tax for 6 months or more, you can only appeal the decision if your:

• property has changed - for example, it’s been demolished, split into multiple properties or merged into one
• property’s use has changed - for example, part of your property is now used for business
• local area has changed - for example, a new supermarket has been built
• property’s band has been changed by the VOA in the last 6 months

If you can appeal, you must do it within 3 months of getting the decision. You may be able to get the time limit extended if you cannot apply in time.

Based on the above paragraph, am I right to say that the split does not have to be within 6 months for the appeal to be valid?

Thank you

I sort of covered this in a previous post, but I will expand on it.


If you occupied a dwelling and sold off part which then became a separate dwelling, you can appeal as your home is effectively reduced in size. But if you move into a house which has already been split and the split part given its own CT band you cannot validly appeal after 6 months on the grounds your home has been split into two. So my opinion is your appeal is invalid.

Thank you for the detailed information.
I wonder why this is not published on government website. All I can find is the paragraph copied in my previous post which has no mention about this. 

It is interpretation of what was intended by that part of the legislation.


If a house is split into two and thus there needs to be  2 CT bands then an appeal can be made to effect this.


If a house has already been split into two and there are 2 CT bands, then there is no need for an appeal. Hence your appeal appears to be invalid.


In their attempt to make matters easier to understand Govt websites often don't tell the whole story or unintentionally mislead.

I understanding the logic you are trying to explain.
However, this part of the legislation is about the criteria for the initial appeal. If the criteria is not explained in full details on the government website, it will only result in unnecessary amount of invalid appeals submitted, only to be rejected after VOA have checked the cases. Wouldn't it save VOA time to publish the full details of criteria so people wouldn't even bother to submit the invalid appeals? 

Cases such as yours are extremely rare ,almost unique.  It is not the VOA's job to publish guidance other than that in the Council Tax Manual (available free online). CT has been around for almost 30 yrs and the number of invalid appeals made through misunderstanding would be infinitesimal. I don't think I ever came across one in my 12 yrs of dealing with CT appeals. 

I am sure there are lots of people out there moving into a property which is the split part from the previous house and only realized more than 6 months later that it still remains on the higher tax band. Without the detailed guidance easily accessible, people would just submit the invalid appeal and waste the VOA time to look at the case details and subsequently reject them. 

In my case, I actually called the VOA before submitting the appeal and after explaining my case, I was advised to submit the proposal. The case was rejected two months later, I then asked them to provide further reasons, the caseworker went back to her manager and came back with the same reason. Not at any point during the process, was the 6 months rule about the split mentioned.  The only reason they have used was the valuation. 

lincroft1710

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

JIL said:

I used right move or zoopla, which had sold prices on it and also current properties for sale which had floor plans and council tax banding.

I'm not sure why you are having trouble with links, the link I provided earlier has links on it to every thing you need to know.

Read all this.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/council-tax-bands-change

Hi, it is so encouraging to see so many people here taking the challenge to the tribunal and successfully have the band lowered even before the hearing taking place. I have my remote hearing booked in May 2022.
My house used to have a garage to the side. Before the original valuation in 1990s, the garage was converted to a two storey house by the previous owner. Hence, it was valued as the highest among all the properties on the same street and put in Band E. However the garage-converted house was then completely separated from the main house on land registry and subsequently sold as a single bedroom house by the previous owner. This single bedroom house has since been paying its own council tax in Band C and rented out. In 2010, I bought the main house without the garage-converted house for the price of £250k. However, the main house I bought still remains in the same band E despite the fact it is now actually one of the smallest and lowest valued properties on the same street due to the garage-converted house split from the main house. Not only the main house has become smaller compared to the other similar properties, it has also suffered loss of privacy because the garage-converted house has its back door opening to the main house's garden. Due to these facts, the local estate agents all agreed that my house is valued at least 15 to 20% less than the similar properties. Shockingly, it remains in the highest band among all the properties on the same street. In fact, nearly 80% of the properties on this street are in the lower band D. I appealed to the valuation office last year thinking my case was so straightforward but only for them to decline and insist that they had to stick to the valuation done in 1990s. 
I am now hoping to receive a call from them to offer to drop it to band D before the hearing date. I wonder if it is a bullying strategy by VOA to reject all the appeals even there is sufficient evidence to lower the band expecting most of the people wouldn't have the energy or knowledge to take it to the tribunal.  

If you bought the house 11 years ago, how were you able to make a valid appeal? 


I don't know if "bullying" is the right term. They may actually have evidence to support their belief Band E is correct. But it could be a generic rejection letter sent because they have had no time to investigate or as you  imply because they hope some CT payers will decide the matter is not worth pursuing. 

Does it matter how long ago the house was purchased? They didn't reject it because it was bought 11 years. I actually emailed them back to challenge their decision. They just kept giving the same reason that it was the right valuation in 1990s. 

A valid appeal can only be made within 6 months of becoming the CT payer. As your home was part of a larger property it may be that the VOA believed that your house had only just been split into two. But they would be mistaken if in fact it had been split (and there were 2 bands) more than 6 months before your appeal was made and your appeal would be invalid.

Thanks for the information. 
I have looked at the government website again. The rule on the grounds for appealing after six months is listed in the following paragraph copied from the website: 

If you disagree with the decision

You can appeal the decision in some cases. You’ll be told if you can appeal when you get your decision.

If you’ve been paying Council Tax on your property for less than 6 months you usually have the right to appeal the decision. If, for example, you move into a property with your partner who’s been paying Council Tax for more than 6 months, you cannot appeal the decision.

If you’ve been paying your property’s Council Tax for 6 months or more, you can only appeal the decision if your:

• property has changed - for example, it’s been demolished, split into multiple properties or merged into one
• property’s use has changed - for example, part of your property is now used for business
• local area has changed - for example, a new supermarket has been built
• property’s band has been changed by the VOA in the last 6 months

If you can appeal, you must do it within 3 months of getting the decision. You may be able to get the time limit extended if you cannot apply in time.

Based on the above paragraph, am I right to say that the split does not have to be within 6 months for the appeal to be valid?

Thank you

I sort of covered this in a previous post, but I will expand on it.


If you occupied a dwelling and sold off part which then became a separate dwelling, you can appeal as your home is effectively reduced in size. But if you move into a house which has already been split and the split part given its own CT band you cannot validly appeal after 6 months on the grounds your home has been split into two. So my opinion is your appeal is invalid.

Thank you for the detailed information.
I wonder why this is not published on government website. All I can find is the paragraph copied in my previous post which has no mention about this. 

It is interpretation of what was intended by that part of the legislation.


If a house is split into two and thus there needs to be  2 CT bands then an appeal can be made to effect this.


If a house has already been split into two and there are 2 CT bands, then there is no need for an appeal. Hence your appeal appears to be invalid.


In their attempt to make matters easier to understand Govt websites often don't tell the whole story or unintentionally mislead.

I understanding the logic you are trying to explain.
However, this part of the legislation is about the criteria for the initial appeal. If the criteria is not explained in full details on the government website, it will only result in unnecessary amount of invalid appeals submitted, only to be rejected after VOA have checked the cases. Wouldn't it save VOA time to publish the full details of criteria so people wouldn't even bother to submit the invalid appeals? 

Cases such as yours are extremely rare ,almost unique.  It is not the VOA's job to publish guidance other than that in the Council Tax Manual (available free online). CT has been around for almost 30 yrs and the number of invalid appeals made through misunderstanding would be infinitesimal. I don't think I ever came across one in my 12 yrs of dealing with CT appeals. 

I am sure there are lots of people out there moving into a property which is the split part from the previous house and only realized more than 6 months later that it still remains on the higher tax band. Without the detailed guidance easily accessible, people would just submit the invalid appeal and waste the VOA time to look at the case details and subsequently reject them. 

In my case, I actually called the VOA before submitting the appeal and after explaining my case, I was advised to submit the proposal. The case was rejected two months later, I then asked them to provide further reasons, the caseworker went back to her manager and came back with the same reason. Not at any point during the process, was the 6 months rule about the split mentioned.  The only reason they have used was the valuation. 

There are very few properties which get split (other than flat conversions), often planners will not allow this. The occupiers have the same right as other CT payers to appeal their band if they think it is too high. Flat conversions result in the original house banding being deleted and new addresses created with associated bands. Invalid appeals are quite rare and I will repeat, cases such as yours are exceptionally rare. I will further repeat it is not for the VOA to publish interpretation on CT legislation. You have actually waited 11 years before querying your CT band.


Despite the advice given by the VOA (and they may have misunderstood what you said) +my opinion remains your appeal appears to have been invalidly made. My advice to you would be to let sleeping dogs lie and proceed to Tribunal and hope a clued-up Clerk to the Tribunal doesn't realise the actual facts of the case.


I am wondering if the VOA's stance on not offering a reduction is the fact that erroneously they missed off the "second house" when doing the original banding or didn't include it because it was a house in its own right at that time. 

Purlain

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

JIL said:

I used right move or zoopla, which had sold prices on it and also current properties for sale which had floor plans and council tax banding.

I'm not sure why you are having trouble with links, the link I provided earlier has links on it to every thing you need to know.

Read all this.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/council-tax-bands-change

Hi, it is so encouraging to see so many people here taking the challenge to the tribunal and successfully have the band lowered even before the hearing taking place. I have my remote hearing booked in May 2022.
My house used to have a garage to the side. Before the original valuation in 1990s, the garage was converted to a two storey house by the previous owner. Hence, it was valued as the highest among all the properties on the same street and put in Band E. However the garage-converted house was then completely separated from the main house on land registry and subsequently sold as a single bedroom house by the previous owner. This single bedroom house has since been paying its own council tax in Band C and rented out. In 2010, I bought the main house without the garage-converted house for the price of £250k. However, the main house I bought still remains in the same band E despite the fact it is now actually one of the smallest and lowest valued properties on the same street due to the garage-converted house split from the main house. Not only the main house has become smaller compared to the other similar properties, it has also suffered loss of privacy because the garage-converted house has its back door opening to the main house's garden. Due to these facts, the local estate agents all agreed that my house is valued at least 15 to 20% less than the similar properties. Shockingly, it remains in the highest band among all the properties on the same street. In fact, nearly 80% of the properties on this street are in the lower band D. I appealed to the valuation office last year thinking my case was so straightforward but only for them to decline and insist that they had to stick to the valuation done in 1990s. 
I am now hoping to receive a call from them to offer to drop it to band D before the hearing date. I wonder if it is a bullying strategy by VOA to reject all the appeals even there is sufficient evidence to lower the band expecting most of the people wouldn't have the energy or knowledge to take it to the tribunal.  

If you bought the house 11 years ago, how were you able to make a valid appeal? 


I don't know if "bullying" is the right term. They may actually have evidence to support their belief Band E is correct. But it could be a generic rejection letter sent because they have had no time to investigate or as you  imply because they hope some CT payers will decide the matter is not worth pursuing. 

Does it matter how long ago the house was purchased? They didn't reject it because it was bought 11 years. I actually emailed them back to challenge their decision. They just kept giving the same reason that it was the right valuation in 1990s. 

A valid appeal can only be made within 6 months of becoming the CT payer. As your home was part of a larger property it may be that the VOA believed that your house had only just been split into two. But they would be mistaken if in fact it had been split (and there were 2 bands) more than 6 months before your appeal was made and your appeal would be invalid.

Thanks for the information. 
I have looked at the government website again. The rule on the grounds for appealing after six months is listed in the following paragraph copied from the website: 

If you disagree with the decision

You can appeal the decision in some cases. You’ll be told if you can appeal when you get your decision.

If you’ve been paying Council Tax on your property for less than 6 months you usually have the right to appeal the decision. If, for example, you move into a property with your partner who’s been paying Council Tax for more than 6 months, you cannot appeal the decision.

If you’ve been paying your property’s Council Tax for 6 months or more, you can only appeal the decision if your:

• property has changed - for example, it’s been demolished, split into multiple properties or merged into one
• property’s use has changed - for example, part of your property is now used for business
• local area has changed - for example, a new supermarket has been built
• property’s band has been changed by the VOA in the last 6 months

If you can appeal, you must do it within 3 months of getting the decision. You may be able to get the time limit extended if you cannot apply in time.

Based on the above paragraph, am I right to say that the split does not have to be within 6 months for the appeal to be valid?

Thank you

I sort of covered this in a previous post, but I will expand on it.


If you occupied a dwelling and sold off part which then became a separate dwelling, you can appeal as your home is effectively reduced in size. But if you move into a house which has already been split and the split part given its own CT band you cannot validly appeal after 6 months on the grounds your home has been split into two. So my opinion is your appeal is invalid.

Thank you for the detailed information.
I wonder why this is not published on government website. All I can find is the paragraph copied in my previous post which has no mention about this. 

It is interpretation of what was intended by that part of the legislation.


If a house is split into two and thus there needs to be  2 CT bands then an appeal can be made to effect this.


If a house has already been split into two and there are 2 CT bands, then there is no need for an appeal. Hence your appeal appears to be invalid.


In their attempt to make matters easier to understand Govt websites often don't tell the whole story or unintentionally mislead.

I understanding the logic you are trying to explain.
However, this part of the legislation is about the criteria for the initial appeal. If the criteria is not explained in full details on the government website, it will only result in unnecessary amount of invalid appeals submitted, only to be rejected after VOA have checked the cases. Wouldn't it save VOA time to publish the full details of criteria so people wouldn't even bother to submit the invalid appeals? 

Cases such as yours are extremely rare ,almost unique.  It is not the VOA's job to publish guidance other than that in the Council Tax Manual (available free online). CT has been around for almost 30 yrs and the number of invalid appeals made through misunderstanding would be infinitesimal. I don't think I ever came across one in my 12 yrs of dealing with CT appeals. 

I am sure there are lots of people out there moving into a property which is the split part from the previous house and only realized more than 6 months later that it still remains on the higher tax band. Without the detailed guidance easily accessible, people would just submit the invalid appeal and waste the VOA time to look at the case details and subsequently reject them. 

In my case, I actually called the VOA before submitting the appeal and after explaining my case, I was advised to submit the proposal. The case was rejected two months later, I then asked them to provide further reasons, the caseworker went back to her manager and came back with the same reason. Not at any point during the process, was the 6 months rule about the split mentioned.  The only reason they have used was the valuation. 

There are very few properties which get split (other than flat conversions), often planners will not allow this. The occupiers have the same right as other CT payers to appeal their band if they think it is too high. Flat conversions result in the original house banding being deleted and new addresses created with associated bands. Invalid appeals are quite rare and I will repeat, cases such as yours are exceptionally rare. I will further repeat it is not for the VOA to publish interpretation on CT legislation. You have actually waited 11 years before querying your CT band.


Despite the advice given by the VOA (and they may have misunderstood what you said) +my opinion remains your appeal appears to have been invalidly made. My advice to you would be to let sleeping dogs lie and proceed to Tribunal and hope a clued-up Clerk to the Tribunal doesn't realise the actual facts of the case.


I am wondering if the VOA's stance on not offering a reduction is the fact that erroneously they missed off the "second house" when doing the original banding or didn't include it because it was a house in its own right at that time. 

Sorry maybe I didn't explain my case clearly.

The garage was already converted to a two storey house before the original valuation. Both the converted house and the main house were valued as a single dwelling which makes the house one of the largest in the area, hence the higher band E at the original valuation. Afterwards, the owner before me sold the converted house to someone else and the house officially spilt into two properties on the land registry with the converted house banded separately since then.The original house has therefore lost the converted house which actually took up a large plot of land at the back because the garage was extended to the back. This had in turn resulted to the original house becoming one of the smallest properties in the area. Despite this, the original house remained in band E. What I purchased in 2010 was actually the original house after the official split.

Despite being one of the smallest properties in the area and also the loss of privacy due to the converted house's back door opening to my garden, my house remained in the highest band E in the area. Based on the VOA database, 80% of the properties in the area are in band D. This is why I believe there is a strong case to drop my house to band D. It would be much appreciated if you can shed some light on my case.  

Kuga247

We had a similar situation we moved into a bungalow which had a en-suite some one in estate agents described as could be a annex some bright spark at council apparently they check properties going on market picked up on this and when we moved in we got two tax bills one for (annex) and one for bungalow it took months to sort out sending  pictures and declarations we had two bills one f and one a bands now we are in g trying to get where it should be f tribunal in May 

Purlain

Kuga247 said:

We had a similar situation we moved into a bungalow which had a en-suite some one in estate agents described as could be a annex some bright spark at council apparently they check properties going on market picked up on this and when we moved in we got two tax bills one for (annex) and one for bungalow it took months to sort out sending  pictures and declarations we had two bills one f and one a bands now we are in g trying to get where it should be f tribunal in May 

mine is also in May, fingers crossed that they come to their sense and drop the band before going to the hearing.