Council tax banding

lincroft1710

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Kuga247 said:

Thanks for that I have used it and I will put it in my bundle for the tribunal I am submitting 5 comparable bungalows which where lowered in the 1990s and five which are in my present band but a lot bigger I am at a loss why previous owner’s didn’t dispute banding when it was set in 1991/1993 there must be thousands who haven’t 

When I was in the VOA and started dealing with CT appeals in 1993, I calculated only 8% had bothered to appeal in the areas our office dealt with.

Great to have someone from VOA sharing the inside information
Does this mean when VOA reject the challenge, it is just a bluff from them knowing most of the people won't bother to appeal?

It shouldn't be, my earlier post answers the question in more detail.

lincroft1710

Purlain said:

JIL said:

I had a similar experience in that I appealed the banding to our house on the week we got the keys. There isnt a similar design house to ours in the neighbourhood but I looked up what others were banded at. It seemed very straightforward to me that our house was incorrectly in the higher bracket. 
My appeal was based on the valuation in 1991 and theres a calculator on this site that helped. I also compared it to similar sized properties and listed them, as well as the higher band properties listing them. Pointing out the differences, as to why my house should have always been in the lower banding.

My appeal was turned down, however I then took it to the tribunal stage, this time I used floor plans of other properties and similar sold prices.
The week before the tribunal hearing I was emailed to say they had looked again at my appeal and agreed with me. So I accepted and the banding was reduced.

Although its £200 per year, it was also about fairness to me.  My neighbours property is a three bedroom detached with a garage, although a different design to my home, its basically similar and was a lower banding. My other neighbour was in the same higher banding with a much bigger garden a corner plot and an additional bedroom.

Really not sure why the previous late owners accepted the banding.

 but then as someone said in this thread, only 8% of the cases eventually went to tribunal, .  

No, completely misquoted.

When I was in the VOA and started dealing with CT appeals in 1993, I calculated only 8% had bothered to appeal in the areas our office dealt with. That is 8% of the total number of dwellings in our area (approx 240,000). Very few of that 8%  actually ended up being heard at tribunal.

Purlain

p00hsticks said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

JIL said:

I used right move or zoopla, which had sold prices on it and also current properties for sale which had floor plans and council tax banding.

I'm not sure why you are having trouble with links, the link I provided earlier has links on it to every thing you need to know.

Read all this.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/council-tax-bands-change

Hi, it is so encouraging to see so many people here taking the challenge to the tribunal and successfully have the band lowered even before the hearing taking place. I have my remote hearing booked in May 2022.
My house used to have a garage to the side. Before the original valuation in 1990s, the garage was converted to a two storey house by the previous owner. Hence, it was valued as the highest among all the properties on the same street and put in Band E. However the garage-converted house was then completely separated from the main house on land registry and subsequently sold as a single bedroom house by the previous owner. This single bedroom house has since been paying its own council tax in Band C and rented out. In 2010, I bought the main house without the garage-converted house for the price of £250k. However, the main house I bought still remains in the same band E despite the fact it is now actually one of the smallest and lowest valued properties on the same street due to the garage-converted house split from the main house. Not only the main house has become smaller compared to the other similar properties, it has also suffered loss of privacy because the garage-converted house has its back door opening to the main house's garden. Due to these facts, the local estate agents all agreed that my house is valued at least 15 to 20% less than the similar properties. Shockingly, it remains in the highest band among all the properties on the same street. In fact, nearly 80% of the properties on this street are in the lower band D. I appealed to the valuation office last year thinking my case was so straightforward but only for them to decline and insist that they had to stick to the valuation done in 1990s. 
I am now hoping to receive a call from them to offer to drop it to band D before the hearing date. I wonder if it is a bullying strategy by VOA to reject all the appeals even there is sufficient evidence to lower the band expecting most of the people wouldn't have the energy or knowledge to take it to the tribunal.  

If you bought the house 11 years ago, how were you able to make a valid appeal? 


I don't know if "bullying" is the right term. They may actually have evidence to support their belief Band E is correct. But it could be a generic rejection letter sent because they have had no time to investigate or as you  imply because they hope some CT payers will decide the matter is not worth pursuing. 

Does it matter how long ago the house was purchased?

I belevie you only have an automatic right to a review within six months of starting to pay council tax on the property, After that you need to provide evidence of why you believe the banding to be wrong, unless there's been a major change to either the property or the immediate vicinity.

https://www.gov.uk/challenge-council-tax-band

Yes, you are right.
The reason I challenged is because the original house was split into two properties but the band still remained at the original band E before the split. I think that's why they accepted the original challenge although the challenge has subsequently been rejected based on the old valuation. 
To be honest, I can't understand why they have a sperate a rule for over 6 months challenge. If people don't have a legitimate and obvious reason to believe the band is wrong, why would they bother to challenge? 

lincroft1710

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

ProDave said:

Kuga247 said:

It’s not actually the council who set the banding it’s VOA the council just take our money you sure it was the council who phoned?

It was the person that was dealing with the appeal, it may have been  the VOA but what does it matter?  You appeal your banding, they make you sweat and when it looked like you were going to actually attend the appeal hearing they gave in and offered a lower banding.

Short sightedness on the part of the VOA caseworker (or Assessor if in Scotland). They should have decided if the band could be reduced before sending any evidence out, would have saved them a lot of time and trouble.

Does this mean if VOA does not send me the evidence by the deadline of 6 weeks prior to the hearing date, it is very likely that they have already decided to give in and drop the band? 

Not exactly.


They must send you the evidence or inform you that they now agree to your request for a lower band. They should not leave you wondering what is going to happen. Also they don't "give in", if they decide to reduce your band it will because they have examined all the available evidence and in light of this believe the current band is in fact too high. 

Purlain

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

JIL said:

I used right move or zoopla, which had sold prices on it and also current properties for sale which had floor plans and council tax banding.

I'm not sure why you are having trouble with links, the link I provided earlier has links on it to every thing you need to know.

Read all this.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/council-tax-bands-change

Hi, it is so encouraging to see so many people here taking the challenge to the tribunal and successfully have the band lowered even before the hearing taking place. I have my remote hearing booked in May 2022.
My house used to have a garage to the side. Before the original valuation in 1990s, the garage was converted to a two storey house by the previous owner. Hence, it was valued as the highest among all the properties on the same street and put in Band E. However the garage-converted house was then completely separated from the main house on land registry and subsequently sold as a single bedroom house by the previous owner. This single bedroom house has since been paying its own council tax in Band C and rented out. In 2010, I bought the main house without the garage-converted house for the price of £250k. However, the main house I bought still remains in the same band E despite the fact it is now actually one of the smallest and lowest valued properties on the same street due to the garage-converted house split from the main house. Not only the main house has become smaller compared to the other similar properties, it has also suffered loss of privacy because the garage-converted house has its back door opening to the main house's garden. Due to these facts, the local estate agents all agreed that my house is valued at least 15 to 20% less than the similar properties. Shockingly, it remains in the highest band among all the properties on the same street. In fact, nearly 80% of the properties on this street are in the lower band D. I appealed to the valuation office last year thinking my case was so straightforward but only for them to decline and insist that they had to stick to the valuation done in 1990s. 
I am now hoping to receive a call from them to offer to drop it to band D before the hearing date. I wonder if it is a bullying strategy by VOA to reject all the appeals even there is sufficient evidence to lower the band expecting most of the people wouldn't have the energy or knowledge to take it to the tribunal.  

If you bought the house 11 years ago, how were you able to make a valid appeal? 


I don't know if "bullying" is the right term. They may actually have evidence to support their belief Band E is correct. But it could be a generic rejection letter sent because they have had no time to investigate or as you  imply because they hope some CT payers will decide the matter is not worth pursuing. 

Does it matter how long ago the house was purchased? They didn't reject it because it was bought 11 years. I actually emailed them back to challenge their decision. They just kept giving the same reason that it was the right valuation in 1990s. 

A valid appeal can only be made within 6 months of becoming the CT payer. As your home was part of a larger property it may be that the VOA believed that your house had only just been split into two. But they would be mistaken if in fact it had been split (and there were 2 bands) more than 6 months before your appeal was made and your appeal would be invalid.

Thanks for the information. 
I have looked at the government website again. The rule on the grounds for appealing after six months is listed in the following paragraph copied from the website: 

If you disagree with the decision

You can appeal the decision in some cases. You’ll be told if you can appeal when you get your decision.

If you’ve been paying Council Tax on your property for less than 6 months you usually have the right to appeal the decision. If, for example, you move into a property with your partner who’s been paying Council Tax for more than 6 months, you cannot appeal the decision.

If you’ve been paying your property’s Council Tax for 6 months or more, you can only appeal the decision if your:

• property has changed - for example, it’s been demolished, split into multiple properties or merged into one
• property’s use has changed - for example, part of your property is now used for business
• local area has changed - for example, a new supermarket has been built
• property’s band has been changed by the VOA in the last 6 months

If you can appeal, you must do it within 3 months of getting the decision. You may be able to get the time limit extended if you cannot apply in time.

Based on the above paragraph, am I right to say that the split does not have to be within 6 months for the appeal to be valid?

Thank you

lincroft1710

Purlain said:

p00hsticks said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

JIL said:

I used right move or zoopla, which had sold prices on it and also current properties for sale which had floor plans and council tax banding.

I'm not sure why you are having trouble with links, the link I provided earlier has links on it to every thing you need to know.

Read all this.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/council-tax-bands-change

Hi, it is so encouraging to see so many people here taking the challenge to the tribunal and successfully have the band lowered even before the hearing taking place. I have my remote hearing booked in May 2022.
My house used to have a garage to the side. Before the original valuation in 1990s, the garage was converted to a two storey house by the previous owner. Hence, it was valued as the highest among all the properties on the same street and put in Band E. However the garage-converted house was then completely separated from the main house on land registry and subsequently sold as a single bedroom house by the previous owner. This single bedroom house has since been paying its own council tax in Band C and rented out. In 2010, I bought the main house without the garage-converted house for the price of £250k. However, the main house I bought still remains in the same band E despite the fact it is now actually one of the smallest and lowest valued properties on the same street due to the garage-converted house split from the main house. Not only the main house has become smaller compared to the other similar properties, it has also suffered loss of privacy because the garage-converted house has its back door opening to the main house's garden. Due to these facts, the local estate agents all agreed that my house is valued at least 15 to 20% less than the similar properties. Shockingly, it remains in the highest band among all the properties on the same street. In fact, nearly 80% of the properties on this street are in the lower band D. I appealed to the valuation office last year thinking my case was so straightforward but only for them to decline and insist that they had to stick to the valuation done in 1990s. 
I am now hoping to receive a call from them to offer to drop it to band D before the hearing date. I wonder if it is a bullying strategy by VOA to reject all the appeals even there is sufficient evidence to lower the band expecting most of the people wouldn't have the energy or knowledge to take it to the tribunal.  

If you bought the house 11 years ago, how were you able to make a valid appeal? 


I don't know if "bullying" is the right term. They may actually have evidence to support their belief Band E is correct. But it could be a generic rejection letter sent because they have had no time to investigate or as you  imply because they hope some CT payers will decide the matter is not worth pursuing. 

Does it matter how long ago the house was purchased?

I belevie you only have an automatic right to a review within six months of starting to pay council tax on the property, After that you need to provide evidence of why you believe the banding to be wrong, unless there's been a major change to either the property or the immediate vicinity.

https://www.gov.uk/challenge-council-tax-band

Yes, you are right.
The reason I challenged is because the original house was split into two properties but the band still remained at the original band E before the split. I think that's why they accepted the original challenge although the challenge has subsequently been rejected based on the old valuation. 
To be honest, I can't understand why they have a sperate a rule for over 6 months challenge. If people don't have a legitimate and obvious reason to believe the band is wrong, why would they bother to challenge? 

Parliament set the 6 month time limit in the 1992 Local Government Finance Act which brought CT into being. Consensus of VOA opinion was that this was done to save the government money by cutting down on the number of appeals to tribunals as during the time of domestic rating, appeals could be made at any time and taken not only to a first tier tribunal but also to a second tier, the Lands Tribunal.


Do not quote me on the following, as it is only an opinion or theory.


There is a possibility (and I stress possibility) that the VOA records may still show the part of your house that was sold off to be still in with your part. It would be worth your while asking them to confirm to exactly what details they have on your home. 

Purlain

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

ProDave said:

Kuga247 said:

It’s not actually the council who set the banding it’s VOA the council just take our money you sure it was the council who phoned?

It was the person that was dealing with the appeal, it may have been  the VOA but what does it matter?  You appeal your banding, they make you sweat and when it looked like you were going to actually attend the appeal hearing they gave in and offered a lower banding.

Short sightedness on the part of the VOA caseworker (or Assessor if in Scotland). They should have decided if the band could be reduced before sending any evidence out, would have saved them a lot of time and trouble.

Does this mean if VOA does not send me the evidence by the deadline of 6 weeks prior to the hearing date, it is very likely that they have already decided to give in and drop the band? 

Not exactly.


They must send you the evidence or inform you that they now agree to your request for a lower band. They should not leave you wondering what is going to happen. Also they don't "give in", if they decide to reduce your band it will because they have examined all the available evidence and in light of this believe the current band is in fact too high. 

sorry, what I meant is that there are people in this thread being contacted by the VOA only a few days prior to the hearing date to be offered a lower band. Someone was even contacted only one day before the hearing. Surely they must have made the decision to lower the band long before that. However, instead of informing people as soon as possible, they left it to the last minute.

lincroft1710

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

JIL said:

I used right move or zoopla, which had sold prices on it and also current properties for sale which had floor plans and council tax banding.

I'm not sure why you are having trouble with links, the link I provided earlier has links on it to every thing you need to know.

Read all this.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/council-tax-bands-change

Hi, it is so encouraging to see so many people here taking the challenge to the tribunal and successfully have the band lowered even before the hearing taking place. I have my remote hearing booked in May 2022.
My house used to have a garage to the side. Before the original valuation in 1990s, the garage was converted to a two storey house by the previous owner. Hence, it was valued as the highest among all the properties on the same street and put in Band E. However the garage-converted house was then completely separated from the main house on land registry and subsequently sold as a single bedroom house by the previous owner. This single bedroom house has since been paying its own council tax in Band C and rented out. In 2010, I bought the main house without the garage-converted house for the price of £250k. However, the main house I bought still remains in the same band E despite the fact it is now actually one of the smallest and lowest valued properties on the same street due to the garage-converted house split from the main house. Not only the main house has become smaller compared to the other similar properties, it has also suffered loss of privacy because the garage-converted house has its back door opening to the main house's garden. Due to these facts, the local estate agents all agreed that my house is valued at least 15 to 20% less than the similar properties. Shockingly, it remains in the highest band among all the properties on the same street. In fact, nearly 80% of the properties on this street are in the lower band D. I appealed to the valuation office last year thinking my case was so straightforward but only for them to decline and insist that they had to stick to the valuation done in 1990s. 
I am now hoping to receive a call from them to offer to drop it to band D before the hearing date. I wonder if it is a bullying strategy by VOA to reject all the appeals even there is sufficient evidence to lower the band expecting most of the people wouldn't have the energy or knowledge to take it to the tribunal.  

If you bought the house 11 years ago, how were you able to make a valid appeal? 


I don't know if "bullying" is the right term. They may actually have evidence to support their belief Band E is correct. But it could be a generic rejection letter sent because they have had no time to investigate or as you  imply because they hope some CT payers will decide the matter is not worth pursuing. 

Does it matter how long ago the house was purchased? They didn't reject it because it was bought 11 years. I actually emailed them back to challenge their decision. They just kept giving the same reason that it was the right valuation in 1990s. 

A valid appeal can only be made within 6 months of becoming the CT payer. As your home was part of a larger property it may be that the VOA believed that your house had only just been split into two. But they would be mistaken if in fact it had been split (and there were 2 bands) more than 6 months before your appeal was made and your appeal would be invalid.

Thanks for the information. 
I have looked at the government website again. The rule on the grounds for appealing after six months is listed in the following paragraph copied from the website: 

If you disagree with the decision

You can appeal the decision in some cases. You’ll be told if you can appeal when you get your decision.

If you’ve been paying Council Tax on your property for less than 6 months you usually have the right to appeal the decision. If, for example, you move into a property with your partner who’s been paying Council Tax for more than 6 months, you cannot appeal the decision.

If you’ve been paying your property’s Council Tax for 6 months or more, you can only appeal the decision if your:

• property has changed - for example, it’s been demolished, split into multiple properties or merged into one
• property’s use has changed - for example, part of your property is now used for business
• local area has changed - for example, a new supermarket has been built
• property’s band has been changed by the VOA in the last 6 months

If you can appeal, you must do it within 3 months of getting the decision. You may be able to get the time limit extended if you cannot apply in time.

Based on the above paragraph, am I right to say that the split does not have to be within 6 months for the appeal to be valid?

Thank you

I sort of covered this in a previous post, but I will expand on it.


If you occupied a dwelling and sold off part which then became a separate dwelling, you can appeal as your home is effectively reduced in size. But if you move into a house which has already been split and the split part given its own CT band you cannot validly appeal after 6 months on the grounds your home has been split into two. So my opinion is your appeal is invalid.

p00hsticks

Purlain said:

p00hsticks said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

JIL said:

I used right move or zoopla, which had sold prices on it and also current properties for sale which had floor plans and council tax banding.

I'm not sure why you are having trouble with links, the link I provided earlier has links on it to every thing you need to know.

Read all this.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/council-tax-bands-change

Hi, it is so encouraging to see so many people here taking the challenge to the tribunal and successfully have the band lowered even before the hearing taking place. I have my remote hearing booked in May 2022.
My house used to have a garage to the side. Before the original valuation in 1990s, the garage was converted to a two storey house by the previous owner. Hence, it was valued as the highest among all the properties on the same street and put in Band E. However the garage-converted house was then completely separated from the main house on land registry and subsequently sold as a single bedroom house by the previous owner. This single bedroom house has since been paying its own council tax in Band C and rented out. In 2010, I bought the main house without the garage-converted house for the price of £250k. However, the main house I bought still remains in the same band E despite the fact it is now actually one of the smallest and lowest valued properties on the same street due to the garage-converted house split from the main house. Not only the main house has become smaller compared to the other similar properties, it has also suffered loss of privacy because the garage-converted house has its back door opening to the main house's garden. Due to these facts, the local estate agents all agreed that my house is valued at least 15 to 20% less than the similar properties. Shockingly, it remains in the highest band among all the properties on the same street. In fact, nearly 80% of the properties on this street are in the lower band D. I appealed to the valuation office last year thinking my case was so straightforward but only for them to decline and insist that they had to stick to the valuation done in 1990s. 
I am now hoping to receive a call from them to offer to drop it to band D before the hearing date. I wonder if it is a bullying strategy by VOA to reject all the appeals even there is sufficient evidence to lower the band expecting most of the people wouldn't have the energy or knowledge to take it to the tribunal.  

If you bought the house 11 years ago, how were you able to make a valid appeal? 


I don't know if "bullying" is the right term. They may actually have evidence to support their belief Band E is correct. But it could be a generic rejection letter sent because they have had no time to investigate or as you  imply because they hope some CT payers will decide the matter is not worth pursuing. 

Does it matter how long ago the house was purchased?

I belevie you only have an automatic right to a review within six months of starting to pay council tax on the property, After that you need to provide evidence of why you believe the banding to be wrong, unless there's been a major change to either the property or the immediate vicinity.

https://www.gov.uk/challenge-council-tax-band

To be honest, I can't understand why they have a sperate a rule for over 6 months challenge. If people don't have a legitimate and obvious reason to believe the band is wrong, why would they bother to challenge? 

I suspect that there will always be people who think its worth a punt to put in a challenge on the offchance that it might get them some money (or a £150 energy rebate!), just as there were plenty of people who put in PPI claims without really knowing whether they had had it or not, let alone whether they were mis-sold.... They just see Martin Lewis et al telling them that there is potentially money to be saved there and so give it a shot...

lincroft1710

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

Purlain said:

lincroft1710 said:

ProDave said:

Kuga247 said:

It’s not actually the council who set the banding it’s VOA the council just take our money you sure it was the council who phoned?

It was the person that was dealing with the appeal, it may have been  the VOA but what does it matter?  You appeal your banding, they make you sweat and when it looked like you were going to actually attend the appeal hearing they gave in and offered a lower banding.

Short sightedness on the part of the VOA caseworker (or Assessor if in Scotland). They should have decided if the band could be reduced before sending any evidence out, would have saved them a lot of time and trouble.

Does this mean if VOA does not send me the evidence by the deadline of 6 weeks prior to the hearing date, it is very likely that they have already decided to give in and drop the band? 

Not exactly.


They must send you the evidence or inform you that they now agree to your request for a lower band. They should not leave you wondering what is going to happen. Also they don't "give in", if they decide to reduce your band it will because they have examined all the available evidence and in light of this believe the current band is in fact too high. 

sorry, what I meant is that there are people in this thread being contacted by the VOA only a few days prior to the hearing date to be offered a lower band. Someone was even contacted only one day before the hearing. Surely they must have made the decision to lower the band long before that. However, instead of informing people as soon as possible, they left it to the last minute.

Without knowing the facts of each case it is difficult to comment.


In my day, CT payers did not have disclose evidence prior to the hearing. As the VOA now has sight of the CT payer's evidence they may believe this evidence is more convincing to a tribunal than theirs, so rather than lose at tribunal they agree to reduce the band. Or they may have run the case past a colleague for a second opinion, and the colleague thinks the case is too weak or not persuasive enough to present to a tribunal. Or new evidence may have come to light.


From memory I think I had a case which having revisited my evidence, seemed unlikely to go in my favour at tribunal. So a few hours before the hearing as I decided to reduce the band and maintain my reputation of presenting strong, winning cases at tribunal.