Please Help County Court Claim - NCP - BW Legal

PCNotice

Coupon-mad said:

The alleged breach doesn't match what you are saying, or at least it makes no sense to me.  Are you sure this is the allegation on the PCN?

alleged breach of contract for ‘parking longer than the time paid for

But you are saying in the draft defence that in fact this wasn't about paying a fee, as you get 2 hours free as a gym member?

You need to explain more. Is it normally a pay & display car park?  How come they say you paid a fee but overstayed?

Good Morning Mrs Coupon mad, thank you for your feedback to my thread. I dont think its a pay and display any more as far as i know from april 2019.

I did not have to pay and use NCP's machine on site to be able to use the car park. After finding a parking space i walked to the gym which is about 5 minutes away.

At the time Crawley gym group website included information about parking which said you must input your reg into an iPad within 15 minutes of parking at Crawley Kingsgate in order to claim the 2 hour free parking. They have now deleted this as NCP at crawley kingsgate handed back the car park to crawley council as the company unexpectedly terminated their lease without notice.

I thought since i entered my car reg into the iPad which was validated that was my Payment to NCP.

From what i can understand from the original PCN linked below states "Breach of the car park terms and conditions of use: parked longer than the time paid for"

The Claim court form states " The PCN was issued as the driver failed to comply with the terms and conditions, as displayed"
but signs in the car park did not show any T&Cs relating to free parking for the GymGroup users… In fact, they didn’t mention the gym at all.

Thank you again and i really do appreciate everyone's help 

[Images removed by Forum Team].

Le_Kirk

I would just change it to read "parked for longer than the time permitted" via the arrangement with the Gym.  Then you can explain in your witness statement that the POC is wrong and you do not pay, at least not in the accepted sense of the word, by putting coins in a PDT but rather through your Gym membership.

D_P_Dance

Total amount £260.88

They have added what appears to be an extra unlawful amount for debt collection. This amounts to double recovery and Judges all over the country are dismissing these spurious additions. Indeed some judges have dismissed entire claims because of this. Read this and complain to Trading Standards and your MP,

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V%20Excel%20v%20Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

However, VCS appealed this so it may not apply in all cases, read this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ntksx9g7177ahyg/VCS v Percy v1 Amendments (2).pdf?dl=0Also read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279348/witness-statements-2-transcripts-re-parking-firms-false-costs-recorder-cohen-qc-judgment-2021/p1

Also consider complaining to The SRA about the solicitor, if one is involved They are fully aware of the unlawful nature of most of thse additions yet persist in adding them..

https://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/

Coupon-mad

Remove that claim form as it shows your MCOL password.

Add a line or two to paragraph 2, that says the Defendant denies the allegation on the Claimant's notice to keeper. which was stated to be 'parked longer than the time paid for'. To the Defendant's knowledge this was not a pay and display car park and being a patron of the gym, there was no payment made nor required so the alleged breach is impossible and incorrect, rendering the parking charge void and this claim meritless.

PCNotice

Good Morning and Thank you for whoever deleted the images for me i did not realise i forgot to delete the MCOL password from the claim form.

Thank you Mrs Coupon-Mad i have amended point 2 and added this below: 

Coupon-mad said:

Remove that claim form as it shows your MCOL password.

Add a line or two to paragraph 2, that says the Defendant denies the allegation on the Claimant's notice to keeper. which was stated to be 'parked longer than the time paid for'. To the Defendant's knowledge this was not a pay and display car park and being a patron of the gym, there was no payment made nor required so the alleged breach is impossible and incorrect, rendering the parking charge void and this claim meritless.

4th Defence Draft: points 5 on wards still remain unchanged from Mrs Coupon Mad's template.

IN THE COUNTY COURT

Claim No.: XXXXXXXX

Between

National Car Parks Limited

(Claimant) 

- and -  

                                                                 XXXXXXXXX                                                                 

 (Defendant)

____________________

DEFENCE

____________________

1.       The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.  It is denied that a contract was entered into - by conduct or otherwise - whereby it was ‘agreed’ to pay a ‘parking charge’ and it is denied that this Claimant (understood to have a bare licence as managers) has standing to sue, nor to form contracts in their own name at the location.

 

The facts as known to the Defendant:

2.       It is admitted that the Defendant is the driver of the vehicle in question but liability is denied. The claim relates to an alleged debt arising from the driver’s alleged breach of contract for ‘parking longer than the time paid for’ based on images by an ANPR camera at the entrance and exit of the car park. This is merely an image of the vehicle in transit and is no evidence of parking. The Defendant further denies the allegation on the Claimant's notice to keeper. which was stated to be 'parked longer than the time paid for'. To the Defendant's knowledge this was not a pay and display car park and being a patron of the gym, there was no payment made nor required so the alleged breach is impossible and incorrect, rendering the parking charge void and this claim meritless. 

 

3.       The Defendant being a member of the gym is permitted to park at Crawley Kingsgate car park for a maximum of 2 hours through an agreement between The Gym Group and the landlord via National Car Parks Limited. The total time from entry to exit was 1-hour 50 minutes and 16 seconds without including the BPA’s code of practice section 13.3 “Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN”.

 

4.      National Car Park Limited uses a complicated system of registration whereby the system creates ‘concealed pitfalls or traps’ which causes an imbalance and unfair burden against consumers with breaches in both the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 & Consumer Rights Act 2015.

PCNotice

Good Morning Everyone i was wondering if you could please help me answer a few questions I'm unsure about:

Should i still be asking for an SAR from NCP at this stage as i dont think i ever received a Letter before claim. But just a barrage of Trace recovery letters, 1 piece of letter from BWLEGAL with the £15/month instalments offer and then a county court claim form.

Also, how do i go about appending recent strike out cases to my defence before i send it off?

Should i print and scan the 6 page judgement by District Judge Grand
along with these attached below: DDJ Josephs, DJ Colquhoun, DJ Jackson, and DJ Wright

Thank you.

Le_Kirk

You don't add anything to a defence (except what is already in the template) as evidence goes later with the witness statemen (WS).  If you haven't submitted a SAR before, you can do so now and see what data they hold on you that might be useful for you at WS time.

Coupon-mad

The advice to append old strike out cases is from 2 years ago and no longer relevant, because that was appealed and 'strike out' with no hearing is considered over the top by a circuit Judge.  

PCNotice

Le_Kirk said:

You don't add anything to a defence (except what is already in the template) as evidence goes later with the witness statemen (WS).  If you haven't submitted a SAR before, you can do so now and see what data they hold on you that might be useful for you at WS time.

Coupon-mad said:

The advice to append old strike out cases is from 2 years ago and no longer relevant, because that was appealed and 'strike out' with no hearing is considered over the top by a circuit Judge.  

Good evening, Thank you both and i hope you had a Merry Christmas.
I have sent an SAR email tonight to the Data Protection Officer of NCP @ DataProtection@ncp.co.uk.
I am now also going to submit my defence tonight without appending anything just my draft and the remaining points from the template.

Redx

PCNotice said:

Le_Kirk said:

You don't add anything to a defence (except what is already in the template) as evidence goes later with the witness statemen (WS).  If you haven't submitted a SAR before, you can do so now and see what data they hold on you that might be useful for you at WS time.

Coupon-mad said:

The advice to append old strike out cases is from 2 years ago and no longer relevant, because that was appealed and 'strike out' with no hearing is considered over the top by a circuit Judge.  

Good evening, Thank you both and i hope you had a Merry Christmas.
I have sent an SAR email tonight to the Data Protection Officer of NCP @ DataProtection@ncp.co.uk.
I am now also going to submit my defence tonight without appending anything just my draft and the remaining points from the template.

Then check for an email auto receipt from the CCBC in reply to your submission , because sending it is less than half of the battle !  It's proof of delivery you require , often not happening when the CCBC is closed ! The only time a defence is definitely received is when your defence is showing as registered on your MCOL claim history , so perhaps from Wednesday onwards

To be clear submission on a Sunday or bank holiday is never recommended , better to submit it at 09:01 on Wednesday 29th  , no exhibits are submitted with the defence , just the single PDF