Seller Has No Gas or Electricity Cerificates

powerful_Rogue

FataVerde said:

Slithery said:

FataVerde said: 

My offer on the house was pretty generous and assumed everything would be in working order. Would I have grounds to ask for a reduction of price given that this is an aging boiler and likely on its last legs?

Does the boiler not work? First time you've mentioned this.
What makes you think that it's on it's last legs?

I did not say it does not currently work, but that it;s aging. The gas engineer I asked said an Ideal Logic boiler would last about 15 years if regularly serviced and checked so that's another 3 years. Judging by the vendor being completely unable to provide any documentation and stating that no service or check was performed on the boiler during their 6-year stay in the flat, this boiler had none of the checks and services. Firms that sell this brand also have Q&A sections on their websites and also suggest 15 years. The warranty is 2 or 7 years for these boilers judging by current online offers. 

Of course they do. They want people like you to rip out and replace a fully working boiler every so many years. Ker ching!£££

TheJP

powerful_Rogue said:

This thing about buyers and boilers really irks me. The house I sold last year had a boiler installed in 2006. Had a couple of services in the following years and then nothing since. In the 14 years, nothing went wrong with the boiler. For peace of mind to the buyer I got it serviced  - Boiler was still in tip top condition with no issues.

However the amount of viewers that said 'Oh, 14 years old, obviously it will need replacing'. Fortunately the viewers that said that never went onto make an offer - I would have ignored any request for a discount just so they could replace a fully working boiler.

No different to wiring that is old an may need to be replaced or windows where they are nearing end of life. Boilers last (depending on make and service history (i know i know) around 10-20 years. If i was buying a house and the boiler was 14+ years with no service history id probably want it checked out, nothing worse than having no heating or hot water with a family and everyday life to carry on with.

My current house, the boiler was original (22 years) however no service history and it had been moved as part of an extension. The house i was buying was part ex and a bit of googling showed me i could have quite a bit of wiggle room, end result was £3k reduction for a new boiler.  

ChasingtheWelshdream

This is interesting from buyers’ perspectives.

Our mum may be selling her house next year and the boiler is 12 years old but has never had an issue. She has it serviced every year (for her piece of mind only) and it works perfectly.

We arranged the installation and have the relevant paperwork ready to produce for any conveyancing. But would not entertain a discount because it is ‘old’. There is nothing wrong with it.

It is in an inconvenient location (bedroom cupboard) so buyers may well wish to replace/move. But that would be their choice and not a reason to ask for a reduction.

Weirdly, because we had it installed (same model and time as doing our own house) it doesn’t actually feel that old! Must be my age!

When we bought our current house (an empty doer-upper) the boiler was only a couple of years old, with an installation cert but just out of warranty. All we wanted was to know that we could expect hot water on moving day. The agent allowed us in to turn it on and run for 1/2 hour to check the radiators (which were ancient but fine). Then off his own back the agent arranged for a gas man to come in and service the boiler the following day. Turns out he likes to do that for all his sales as a goodwill gesture to the buyers. 

We certainly were not expecting it but it did give us piece of mind. The boiler is still here, now 8 years old, no issues and will stay until it dies.

Sanctioned_Parts_List

We bought a house that had been let out previously, so had the original (25 year old) boiler and a current gas safety certificate. We factored the price of a new boiler into our offer simply because the old unit was massively inefficient, but didn't make a show of whining about it to the seller. 

Anyway, it failed a couple of weeks before we were scheduled to have the new one installed. Sometimes these things just work out...

ChasingtheWelshdream

I think that is the thing - all of that is visible on viewing and should be factored into the price/offer.  But to agree a price and then go back later for a discount over something that was obvious doesn’t sit well.

Mum’s house is perfectly liveable and well maintained. But it is also dated and would most likely be marketed as ‘room for improvement/modernisation’. This will be reflected in the asking price.

If a buyer then later came to ask for further £kkk off because the survey flagged the electrics are not modern, the boiler is old and the kitchen could do with replacing  would not be entertained. That was obvious in the marketing/viewing and price.

canaldumidi

Houses need maintenance. Periodically tiles slip off the roof; wooden soffits/window frames need painting; etc ec

And boilers don't last for ever.

Unless you are buying a brand New Build, or an older property with a newly replaced boiler, it is a given that at some point the boiler will need replacing. Maybe at 10 years old. Maybe 15; Maybe 20. Mine was 25 when I bought the house and lasted another 6 years.

As long as it is safe, and working, it is pointless trying to guess how much life is left in it.

badger09

canaldumidi said:

Houses need maintenance. Periodically tiles slip off the roof; wooden soffits/window frames need painting; etc ec

And boilers don't last for ever.

Unless you are buying a brand New Build, or an older property with a newly replaced boiler, it is a given that at some point the boiler will need replacing. Maybe at 10 years old. Maybe 15; Maybe 20. Mine was 25 when I bought the house and lasted another 6 years.

As long as it is safe, and working, it is pointless trying to guess how much life is left in it.

Couldn't have put it better.

We knew when we moved in that the 16+ year old boiler wouldn't last forever. We also realised shortly after moving in in Feb, that it wasn't up to the job of heating the bungalow following several extensions and remodelling. After it failed on Good Friday, we decided to replace it sooner rather than later. Both in our 70s, so at home all day (even in non Covid times) we really didn't want to play Russian Roulette. 

newsgroupmonkey_

There really needs to be a FTB thread somewhere to explain what is and isn't usual as there are lots of threads like this (and the ones where they worry stupidly about a surveyors remark)

We're looking to put our older house on the market shortly. Whilst a FTB has the benefit of no chain, if I had 2 buyers offering the same amount and one was not a FTB and I wasn't in a hurry to move (which we won't be), I'd definitely avoid the FTB.

I've no issue with people asking questions like "is this normal", but demanding gas and electric certificates and insisting it meets current standards, complaining about a crack in plasterwork from settling or demanding that some typical maintenance that may or may not need doing is done.

If you're a FTB, then probably the best advice I can give you is this:

If a house is old, it will need maintenance and gas/electric components may or may not fail. It will have issues that will need to be remedied from time to time, some of which may be quite major.

If you're not prepared for this, get a new-build with the warranty you get like a car (which doesn't mean that regular maintenance won't still need doing, but the major stuff is covered).

Windofchange

Can only really echo the above. We brought a Victorian terrace a couple of years back, and interestingly the boiler did have the gas inspection paperwork and was under a monthly maintenance plan with the vendor, so well maintained. About a year after moving in it packed up and was going to cost many hundreds of pounds to fix (17 year old Worcester), therefore we made the decision to rip it out and get a new one in. So, even with all the correct paperwork it still went wrong shortly after moving in, ergo, the various things we got from the vendor meant diddly squat in terms of any sort of guarantee. Luckily we had been budgeting for this happening since move in and instead of paying the £30 a month warranty money, we had each put that amount into our savings so had a third of the cost covered anyway. We've got a small roof leak somewhere too which didn't show up on survey, and all the category three urgent attention things from the surveyor have so far been good as gold! I'm going to be tearing out the old kitchen and most of the ground floor next year, so I'll renew all the wiring and plumbing then. In essence, if you're buying an old house, budget to do some work to it! It seems that this advise also applies to a new house, however you should at least be covered by a warranty for when you get problems. 

markin

If new homes and 'newly refurbished' didn't come at a huge premium i bet most FTB would be happy to go new, but in the real world many FTB can't buy new and don't have the budget to do any work in the first 3-5 years, so a 6 year boiler with maintenance is better than a 12 year boiler with no maintenance done!

A service can spot small water leaks or rubber seals failing and save the boiler from being destroyed by water or it leaking gases!  For every 1 that has been 'trouble free' the is probably 1 that got killed prematurely. And it wont be running very efficiently if the chamber hasn't been scrubbed clean as the manufacture recommends, You can't tar all plumbers with the same brush just because you had a bad one.