County Court Claim - Defence + Counterclaim

Coupon-mad

Yes, if it's an in-person hearing, you need an entire paper file for yourself to refer to because you are the only claimant now and will be required to speak most, and will need to take the Judge through the authorities and why you are entitled to claim damages for distress, as a matter of law.

Knowing your page numbers (exactly what is where) is useful prep, because if will speed up the process if you can refer the Judge straight to page xx to answer a point.

theeagleman

Thanks - and i just realised.

I did not pagnate it!

Can i send an updated one which is pagnated?

Coupon-mad

Take with you, two exact match paginated files in ring binders, one for you and one for the Judge and offer one to the Judge as you say hello right at the start, to assist the smooth running of the hearing.

Ideally take three.  One for the Claimant. Looks very reasonable of you to put right the lack of page numbering for one and all. Make it clear nothing has changed and these are merely the same pages as before but with numbers on, to help all parties.

theeagleman

Thanks for the advice, and thats a brilliant idea.

Will print two paginated copies for judge and claimant of the WS and Skelly

Will let you know the outcome (if any) - its going to be a scorcher of day and so not even sure if the court will prioritise such case.

They further emailed to ask if it has been settled, as they are "short of Judicial Resources and some cases will need to be adjourned" - to which i pointed out i taken time off well in advance.

theeagleman

So it appears the case is on...

Final questions

1. Regarding vento, it is more generally used (besides the employment tribunal) - is that already established with the judges themselves?

i.e. if the judge asks, why you do you think vento applies in your case, when vento was estabished regarding employment?

2. Loss of earnings - I did not print any payslips or anything - can i show my bank statement to the judge from my phone? or would they believe automatically apply the £95 threshold?

theeagleman

Unfortunately, the judge did not find in my favour, although did commend the attempt.

- Found that the PPC had a legitimate debt to pursure, even though driver details were provided. The PPC stance was that we had no confirmation from the driver, and the judge agreed that because there was no knowlege or confirmation from the driver and the time elapsed after 5 years.

- Found that this case does not meet the threshold for DPA 2018 or Harassment - although did agree with distress with letter from employer after receiving claim.

-Even though original claim was discontinued, it does not necassarily mean that they did breached any protocols in his view.

-Was not persuaded by VCS vs Ferguson - even though some similarties in the case

-Did ask if it can appealed, but he denied, but said can ask the circuit judge within 21 days.

-The PPC can claim no costs either for todays attendance at the hearing

Thanks for all your help!

Coupon-mad

Damn...counterclaims are so difficult to win. There is one rule for claimants and another for defendants, it seems to us.

There is nothing in the POFA that says that a named driver has to respond to make a valid transfer of liability 'live' and IMHO, the Judge was wrong to agree that this meant they could still pursue the keeper.

There is nothing in POFA allowing this.  Transfer of liability is a right and is there in Schedule 4 for a good reason, as a valid protection for keepers who were not driving - and there is no time limit as long as this is done before court action commences.

The 5 year delay was down to the Claimant dragging their feet, not your choice.  Keepers are perfectly entitled under the law to name the driver when 'push comes to shove' - only if and when a PPC shapes up for a court claim.  Most do not, so staying silent and not throwing the driver under the bus is a perfectly valid choice earlier on.

Once they knew the name and address of the driver there was zero case to pursue you, as a matter of law.

theeagleman

Yep,

Coupon-mad said:

Once they knew the name and address if the driver there was zero case to pursue you, as a matter of law.

Emphasised that many times and said everything I done was within the applicable law.

Even accepted the BPA understanding.

Said, if he did find in my favour, then would have awarded the whole amount claimed.

Dont think its worth an appeal to the higher judge though?

Coupon-mad

An appeal is based on whether a Judge 'erred in law.'  I think he did but not sure a useless Circuit Judge would overturn this and to find out you'd have to throw a non-refundable £120 at it, even to gain permission to appeal.

Our experience of Circuit Judges has been utterly appalling. They don't do parking cases and generally just don't get it at all (terrible decisions by HHJ Simpkiss and HHJ Saffman spring to mind).  I don't encourage appeals as I've seen the hopeless way Circuit Judges get led up the garden path by legally represented PPCs.

I fought a similar battle recently, to drag the DLUHC into understanding that the very plausible anti-consumer crap from the besuited PPC Brigade was just that: Plausible, but anti-consumer crap.

It is quite a battle to get past the plausibility of the rogue industry in suits and in court, in my experience, there is less chance of persuading a higher level Circuit Judge than a District Judge.

Get your revenge by making your point in the final Public Consultation.  Likely to be in the Autumn now, I imagine.

theeagleman

Ah, then i wont waste my time with that.... you have far more experience in this than most, so would be wise to listen to that. Besides, not worth taking the £129 risk. 
Already out of pocket by almost £100 lol


Forgive my ignorance, but not sure what you are referring to below. 

Get your revenge by making your point in the final Public Consultation.  Likely to be in the Autumn now, I imagine.