HHR Storage Heaters - Dimplex Quantum etc

OffshoreKiteFlyer

Gerry1 said:

EssexHebridean said:

There is a slight uplift on the cost of getting the Quantum wired in as you need an additional spur from the daytime electric supply to allow for the boost function to work (and also to supply the display I think)

That's the best way, but it seems you can use single 24 h supply IF you programme the Quantum to shadow your meter's E7 hours accurately.

I'm at the point of crying... we have purchased one Quantum to give it a go... the spark has fitted it and said that there is no juice running to it as it isn't in the 7pm to 7am frame he has wired it as a single supply. He has looked at the consumer board and meter... we have E7 on one side of the board and the rest of the house on the other side... I have from British Gas had it confirmed that we have E7 and that the house benefits from whole house switching to night rate... ie if I cook after 7pm I get the cheap rate. The spark has suggested wiring the E7 into the non E7 circuit - we then I guess get constant power to the units for control and then within set up set it to charge for 5 hours between 1am and 6am for example... I really need some help here... Please!

Gerry1

@OffshoreKiteFlyer

Assuming the instructions are valid for your heater (check the instructions that came with it), then you have a choice.  The best way is to wire two supplies to each Quantum, a 24 hour supply and a seven hour E7 supply that is livened up by the meter.  That makes sure that the heater only uses the cheaper E7 supply for heating, provided that you have programmed it correctly:  The Quantum is clever because it can avoid cool evenings if there's a cold snap, but you need to make sure it's topping up at daytime rates only very occasionally.  Your electrician has done a very poor job because he clearly does not understand how modern fan assisted HHR NSHs work.

If running a second supply would be problematic then the workaround is to change the E7 circuit feeding the Quantum to a 24h supply and programming the Quantum to shadow the E7 times.  It's not so good as using two circuits because you can mess things up if you don't programme it correctly.  And that's what you're likely to do if you think that your E7 supply starts at 7pm !

Your E7 cheap rate is likely to start much later, and you need to look at the meter to be certain.  The times vary from region to region and even from meter to meter.  There may even be a two-hour period in the wee small hours when it reverts to the expensive day rate.  You can check by calling 105, but always make a final check by looking at the meter because some types can drift.

Whether you have one supply or two, you need to study the instructions very carefully so that your understanding is 100%, otherwise you may be making expensive mistakes.

If you change the E7 circuit to 24h, check whether the immersion heater is then being fed from a 24h supply.  If so, your bills will rocket unless you fit a local timer next to the immersion heater so that it also shadows the E7 meter times.  Make sure any 'boost switch' is left switched off.

Regardless of the wiring, the whole house will benefit from the cheaper E7 rate for seven hours if you have only an E7 meter.  It would be a good idea to have a neon indicator on one of the E7 outlets so that you can see at a glance when the cheap rate is in operation without having to mess around looking at the meter.  It would be easy to be confused (e.g. about GMT/BST) and find you had been using the tumble dryer at the wrong time !

OffshoreKiteFlyer

Gerry1 said:

@OffshoreKiteFlyer

Assuming the instructions are valid for your heater (check the instructions that came with it), then you have a choice.  The best way is to wire two supplies to each Quantum, a 24 hour supply and a seven hour E7 supply that is livened up by the meter.  That makes sure that the heater only uses the cheaper E7 supply for heating, provided that you have programmed it correctly:  The Quantum is clever because it can avoid cool evenings if there's a cold snap, but you need to make sure it's topping up at daytime rates only very occasionally.  Your electrician has done a very poor job because he clearly does not understand how modern fan assisted HHR NSHs work.

If running a second supply would be problematic then the workaround is to change the E7 circuit feeding the Quantum to a 24h supply and programming the Quantum to shadow the E7 times.  It's not so good as using two circuits because you can mess things up if you don't programme it correctly.  And that's what you're likely to do if you think that your E7 supply starts at 7pm !

Your E7 cheap rate is likely to start much later, and you need to look at the meter to be certain.  The times vary from region to region and even from meter to meter.  There may even be a two-hour period in the wee small hours when it reverts to the expensive day rate.  You can check by calling 105, but always make a final check by looking at the meter because some types can drift.

Whether you have one supply or two, you need to study the instructions very carefully so that your understanding is 100%, otherwise you may be making expensive mistakes.

If you change the E7 circuit to 24h, check whether the immersion heater is then being fed from a 24h supply.  If so, your bills will rocket unless you fit a local timer next to the immersion heater so that it also shadows the E7 meter times.  Make sure any 'boost switch' is left switched off.

Regardless of the wiring, the whole house will benefit from the cheaper E7 rate for seven hours if you have only an E7 meter.  It would be a good idea to have a neon indicator on one of the E7 outlets so that you can see at a glance when the cheap rate is in operation without having to mess around looking at the meter.  It would be easy to be confused (e.g. about GMT/BST) and find you had been using the tumble dryer at the wrong time !

Thank you so much that is really helpful!

Best way would be two supplies but it would mean major upheaval in an 1850s stone cottage in Wales... I was looking to shadow E7 and this is where the spark was/is suggesting putting the feed across to the 24hr feed... as I understand it within setup you can set up to 4 time periods to have the heater charge during the cheaper rate and not just the default which is on 24 hrs! 

The immersion is being fed by the 24hr supply and I have that on a timer for an hour between 2am & 3am.

The neon indicator on the spur to the E7 heater I assume that I do this before we wire into the 24hr wiring? And if all the E7 heaters are switched to Quantums then the E7 part of the meter is ostensibly redundant as we are now running the Quantums off the 24 hr feed... which benefits from whole house low rate for the off peak rate? Interestingly it was British Gas that told me off peak was 7pm to 7am! Your links to Scottish Power were invaluable. 

Thank you... 

OffshoreKiteFlyer

@Gerry1as a follow up I went onto an online chat with British Gas... totally contradictory to the conversations I've had previously but one that I thought was the case - it isn't 7pm to 7am at all!

Parvez : Thanks for waiting, Here are all details, Day Rate (rate 1): 07:30 to 23:00 (GMT, Winter) - 08:30 to 00:00 (BST, Summer)
Night Rate (rate 2): 23:00 to 07:30 (GMT, Winter) - 00:00 to 08:30 (BST, Summer)

So now I know!

QrizB

OffshoreKiteFlyer said:

Night Rate (rate 2): 23:00 to 07:30 (GMT, Winter) - 00:00 to 08:30 (BST, Summer)

I'd be a bit suspicious about that too, the tariff is Economy 7 not Economy 8.5! You really should check the switching times on your meter, it's the only way to be sure.

coffeehound

Don't trust the utility provider to tell you the off-peak times, they very often don't know.  A small number of enlightened providers such as Octopus are on the ball and have the technology to remotely set-up and interrogate smart meters, but most don't

OffshoreKiteFlyer

QrizB said:

OffshoreKiteFlyer said:

Night Rate (rate 2): 23:00 to 07:30 (GMT, Winter) - 00:00 to 08:30 (BST, Summer)

I'd be a bit suspicious about that too, the tariff is Economy 7 not Economy 8.5! You really should check the switching times on your meter, it's the only way to be sure.

OK thank you - daft question how do I check the switching times? 

OffshoreKiteFlyer

coffeehound said:

Don't trust the utility provider to tell you the off-peak times, they very often don't know.  A small number of enlightened providers such as Octopus are on the ball and have the technology to remotely set-up and interrogate smart meters, but most don't

Is it worth going down the smart meter route - currently I have a white box with a blue button on... 

Gerry1

Providing that you don't have any other electricity meter then the whole house will always be at cheap rate at the relevant times however it's wired provided that you have a dual rate E7 tariff.  The meter will increment each register automatically.  BTW, you shouldn't be asking British Gas because they are not your DNO, which is likely to be Western Power Distribution or SP Energy Networks.  But at the end of the day (see what I did there?) it's what the meter thinks that counts, not what somebody tells you.

You won't need a neon indicator outlet if you're switching the Quantum to a 24h circuit, it would just stay lit the whole time.  If you have a switched E7 circuit elsewhere (e.g. for an existing conventional NSH) it's a handy way of checking when the cheap rate kicks in (it can vary by +/- 15 minutes if you have a radio teleswitch) but it sounds like you may end up with no switched circuits at all.  It's not essential, but the cost is negligible and it can be very handy to see at a glance when it's cheap rate.

Just get the electrician to wire the Quantum to the switched E7 supply and you'll be fine.  However, take great care to programme the Quantum yourself, making absolutely sure it's charging only at the times when you've seen the meter giving cheap rate and that it's not sneakily topping up in the afternoon at peak rate.

Gerry1

OffshoreKiteFlyer said:

QrizB said:

OffshoreKiteFlyer said:

Night Rate (rate 2): 23:00 to 07:30 (GMT, Winter) - 00:00 to 08:30 (BST, Summer)

I'd be a bit suspicious about that too, the tariff is Economy 7 not Economy 8.5! You really should check the switching times on your meter, it's the only way to be sure.

OK thank you - daft question how do I check the switching times? 

Dial 105 and ask Western Power Distribution or SP Energy Networks, but double check by looking at the meter and seeing when it changes over.