HHR Storage Heaters - Dimplex Quantum etc

worlestone

Can anyone with the new High Heat Retention storage heaters conform that they do work and are more economical to operate than ye olde NSH's (Dimplex XLSN etc).

As in do they really hold the heat/cool to touch until the fan is operated?

We are on E7, 4 bed house in rural Dorset, no gas close to us.  Have Dimplex XLN/XLSN heaters on the ground floor and considering changing two in the lounge to HRR as we don't use that room until evening. We're at home during the day so 'leaky' heaters work for us in the rest of the house!

EssexHebridean

Yes, yes and oh YES! Absolute Quantum convert here - we had a VERY elderly Creda NSH changed for a Quantum a couple of years ago, and it’s a game changer IMO. (The Creda got relocated to replace an elderly Dimplex model which pretty much no longer worked at all) The extra control ability of the Quantum is incredibly useful, and the lack of heat loss (you can feel that it’s not “stone cold” while it’s charging up, but the XLS in the front room is actually “hot” overnight - so that gives you an idea of the difference.) makes it a lot cheaper to run as you can actually have the heat when you want it, not at a time that means it’s stopped being useful once needed! 

There is a slight uplift on the cost of getting the Quantum wired in as you need an additional spur from the daytime electric supply to allow for the boost function to work (and also to supply the display I think) but we didn’t find that was a massive extra. The boost function isn’t something you’d want to use often but for a quick “top up” on a day where there has been colder than forecast temperatures ours costs around 20p an hour. 

Cardew

The laws of thermodynamics determines that they CANNOT be more economical than any other electrical heater. A set amount of electricity used by any elecrical heater produces EXACTLY the same amount of heat. i.e. all electrical heaters are 100% efficient.

That said you have rightly pointed out that the problem with many(most) conventional NSHs is heat leakage.

HHR storage heaters manufacturers make claims such as 'Energy efficient heaters are capable of providing energy savings of up to 35% when compared to old manual storage heaters.' Given that they produce no more heat than any other electrical heater for a given input, the only way such a claim could be true is that they leak less heat by having better insulation and better controls to retain heat.

Even then it depends what you define as 'energy savings'.

I have not seen any tests comparing storage heaters that verify such claims, and the use of terms such as savings UP TO 35% are meaningless. That term covers savings of 0.001%!!

EssexHebridean

Without question we now get more useable heat from the new heater, for less input cost, than we get from a far larger older one. Currently we have our Quantum set to 21° and on an “out all day” basis - roughly 1.5 hrs heat AM, 5 hrs PM, XLS is set with input around half way, output fully closed. In spite of that fully closed output, the XLS is approaching having lost most of its stored heat by his point in the day - by the evening when we actually want it to be warm, it’ll likely be bordering  on chilly because the heat produced earlier in the day has stopped having any effect on the room temperature. This sometimes means we need to put added heaters on during the evening - at peak rate. The physics of “100% efficient” is one of those things which while technically true, isn’t actually much help in a real life scenario! (Think of it a bit like suggesting that someone eats all their days calorie needs at breakfast time, in chocolate. They’ll have had their days energy, sure, but that won’t stop them feeling hungry later and indeed, by tea time, they probably won’t be functioning terribly efficiently either!) 

Cardew

Your first post compared your Quantum with a 'VERY elderly Creda NSH' and really old NSHs often did leak badly. If that 'leaked heat' is wasted then naturally a NSH that leaks less heat will be a better proposition.

Not everyone shares your enthusiasm for Quantum heaters see:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4756577/i-fitted-a-dimplex-quantum-heater

Gerry1

EssexHebridean said:

There is a slight uplift on the cost of getting the Quantum wired in as you need an additional spur from the daytime electric supply to allow for the boost function to work (and also to supply the display I think)

That's the best way, but it seems you can use a single 24h supply IF you programme the Quantum to shadow your meter's E7 hours accurately.

Swipe

I rely on my old storage heaters to leak and heat the room overnight. Often, I wake in the morning and the rooms are not quite to temperature. They normally need another hour or so to get there after the off peak rate has ended so, in my case, I think a quantum would allow the room to get too cold overnight with the flap completely shut.

Gerry1

Swipe said:

I rely on my old storage heaters to leak and heat the room overnight. Often, I wake in the morning and the rooms are not quite to temperature. They normally need another hour or so to get there after the off peak rate has ended

Sounds like your old storage heaters are too small and / or the input controls needs to be set higher during cold weather.

Swipe said:

I think a quantum would allow the room to get too cold overnight with the flap completely shut.

IIRC Quantums don't have a flap that can be closed manually or by a bi-metallic strip: they are well insulated and designed to release heat not by upwards convection but only when programmer is calling for heat and has switched the fan on to blow heat out from the base.  Correctly dimensioned and programmed Quantums shouldn't have any problems in this respect.

worlestone

Cardew said:

...

Not everyone shares your enthusiasm for Quantum heaters see:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4756577/i-fitted-a-dimplex-quantum-heater

Thanks for pointing me to that, an interesting thread to read, especially as those who have these heaters installed mostly appear to have issues with them, only to later post that all's working well, they just didn't appreciate hiw they work quite differently to conventional storage heaters.

I think we'll start with one Quantum or similar replacing a heater in the lounge and see how we go

Thanks people

Reed_Richards

EssexHebridean said:

Without question we now get more useable heat from the new heater, for less input cost, than we get from a far larger older one. Currently we have our Quantum set to 21° and on an “out all day” basis - roughly 1.5 hrs heat AM, 5 hrs PM,...

This pattern of use, 'out all day' is significant.  If you don't want most of your stored heat until the evening then minimising heat leakage is really important.  If you were in all day than it's more likely to be the heat storage capacity that is the most important factor. 

EssexHebridean

Cardew said:

Your first post compared your Quantum with a 'VERY elderly Creda NSH' and really old NSHs often did leak badly. If that 'leaked heat' is wasted then naturally a NSH that leaks less heat will be a better proposition.

Not everyone shares your enthusiasm for Quantum heaters see:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4756577/i-fitted-a-dimplex-quantum-heater

Interesting thread - some techy information there about the Quantum’s that we were unaware of also which is handy, thanks! It seems to be a pretty accurate reflection of our experience too  with the majority of those who understand the programming etc of the Quantums being really pleased with them - we have taken the time and trouble (and have 18 years of experience to this point!) to learn how to best use NSH’s to our benefit and accordingly we understand their use pretty well. Unless you DO understand them, they are going to seem expensive and also not do what you expect - as per the experience of the lady (I assume from the u/n) who was talking about removing hers and replacing the old one! She also appears to be someone who wants far more heat early in the day than later on - something which you could easily programme the newer style ones to do, ironically! 

The main issues that others seem to experience are noise - the “clicking” issue - which absolutely is anything we’ve experienced, ours is sitting solidly on a hard floor and is rock-solid in its fixing to the wall too though, so this maybe why. I’d certainly have been calling for a service visit had we had any noise of that type from it, too! 

The OP was asking for experience of those who have actually lived with the new HHR heaters, and that is precisely what I was giving. Our experience has been good - we will almost certainly be upgrading another older one to Quantum at some stage too as a result. As with everything though, you’re never going to please “all of the people, all of the time”!

Reed_Richards said:

EssexHebridean said:

Without question we now get more useable heat from the new heater, for less input cost, than we get from a far larger older one. Currently we have our Quantum set to 21° and on an “out all day” basis - roughly 1.5 hrs heat AM, 5 hrs PM,...

This pattern of use, 'out all day' is significant.  If you don't want most of your stored heat until the evening then minimising heat leakage is really important.  If you were in all day than it's more likely to be the heat storage capacity that is the most important factor. 

We used them on “home all day” last year and they worked almost as well - I’m not going to say “as well” because there were days when they had lost most of the heat slightly earlier than ideal, but we were pushing them to the max of the hours available, and sometimes using the advance function which will of course use the heat sooner.  The boost function plugged the gaps at not too great a cost when really needed. 

@worlestone they are hugely different - it took us the first few months of having the Quantum to really get to grips with it. The thread linked by Cardew is great as it gives far more information that the user-guide does!