Falsified EPCs created by an Assessor - urgency to do something...

Section62

NameUnavailable said:

You still haven't said why you're so interested in this particular property? I'm buying a flat at the moment and looking at EPC's for others in the same block I see a lot of variance. The EPC system is not really fit for purpose at it is.

But what is the purpose of your crusade? Energy (no pun) would better be directed at system reform rather than one random property.

Why does it matter?

Can we not just discuss the issues rather than question the OP's motivation?

AFAIK the forum rules don't require posters to explain themselves and their motivations.


And the OP has raised an interesting discussion topic which may have a lot more relevance to other people as restrictions on mortgages, preferential interest rates, and cashback and incentives - all linked to EPC ratings - become more common.

I'm interested in this thread because I've always had doubts about the EPC system, and think it will get worse when there are significant financial incentives available when buying and/or remortgaging to have an EPC 'finessed'.

And "system reform" is only going to come about when attention is drawn to specific abuses of the system.

anselld

NameUnavailable said:

adviseforumthanks said:

MaryNB said:

Also plenty of flats have immersion heaters and electric panel heaters. They don't warrant a G rating. I lived in a recently converted flat that had those - and I didn't have the benefit of an off peak tariff. I might not be a C rated property but I can't see how it's a G 

Well I think assessors are supposed to take evidence and pictures of things and this can get examined by the accreditation company if there are questions. I complained last week, they said they something was off and they would review & come back yesterday, and nothing.   

You still haven't said why you're so interested in this particular property? I'm buying a flat at the moment and looking at EPC's for others in the same block I see a lot of variance. The EPC system is not really fit for purpose at it is.

But what is the purpose of your crusade? Energy (no pun) would better be directed at system reform rather than one random property.

Suspect it is nothing to do with concerns for energy.  OP simply does not like living next to a rental property.

Section62

adviseforumthanks said:

MaryNB said:

Also plenty of flats have immersion heaters and electric panel heaters. They don't warrant a G rating. I lived in a recently converted flat that had those - and I didn't have the benefit of an off peak tariff. I might not be a C rated property but I can't see how it's a G 

Well I think assessors are supposed to take evidence and pictures of things and this can get examined by the accreditation company if there are questions. I complained last week, they said they something was off and they would review & come back yesterday, and nothing.   

I would give it more time, perhaps another week.

If you don't hear anything by then I would probably write to my MP, calmly setting out what you have on this thread (perhaps toning 'falsified' down to 'inconsistent' (or similar)) and explain how you view the system to be flawed - leaving tenants (and others) unable to rely on an EPC as a meaningfully accurate assessment of energy efficiency and potential costs.

As an individual there's not much more you can do.

fewcloudy

anselld said:

NameUnavailable said:

adviseforumthanks said:

MaryNB said:

Also plenty of flats have immersion heaters and electric panel heaters. They don't warrant a G rating. I lived in a recently converted flat that had those - and I didn't have the benefit of an off peak tariff. I might not be a C rated property but I can't see how it's a G 

Well I think assessors are supposed to take evidence and pictures of things and this can get examined by the accreditation company if there are questions. I complained last week, they said they something was off and they would review & come back yesterday, and nothing.   

You still haven't said why you're so interested in this particular property? I'm buying a flat at the moment and looking at EPC's for others in the same block I see a lot of variance. The EPC system is not really fit for purpose at it is.

But what is the purpose of your crusade? Energy (no pun) would better be directed at system reform rather than one random property.

Suspect it is nothing to do with concerns for energy.  OP simply does not like living next to a rental property.

Nimbyism most likely.

TheJP

adviseforumthanks said:

MaryNB said:

Also plenty of flats have immersion heaters and electric panel heaters. They don't warrant a G rating. I lived in a recently converted flat that had those - and I didn't have the benefit of an off peak tariff. I might not be a C rated property but I can't see how it's a G 

Well I think assessors are supposed to take evidence and pictures of things and this can get examined by the accreditation company if there are questions. I complained last week, they said they something was off and they would review & come back yesterday, and nothing.   

When i was selling we had a new EPC carried out, the assessor didn't take any pictures just notes.

adviseforumthanks

NameUnavailable said:
You still haven't said why you're so interested in this particular property? I'm buying a flat at the moment and looking at EPC's for others in the same block I see a lot of variance. The EPC system is not really fit for purpose at it is. But what is the purpose of your crusade? Energy (no pun) would better be directed at system reform rather than one random property.

Just do thing locally as it effects people around you and its what you know best. There's a difference between varying EPC opinions and what we see as deliberately, falsely, EPC mis-grading. Why should they think they can get away with it when the MEES law was changed for a reason.

TheJP

adviseforumthanks said:

NameUnavailable said:
You still haven't said why you're so interested in this particular property? I'm buying a flat at the moment and looking at EPC's for others in the same block I see a lot of variance. The EPC system is not really fit for purpose at it is. But what is the purpose of your crusade? Energy (no pun) would better be directed at system reform rather than one random property.

Just do thing locally as it effects people around you and its what you know best. There's a difference between varying EPC opinions and what we see as deliberately, falsely, EPC mis-grading. Why should they think they can get away with it when the MEES law was changed for a reason.

But do you have actual proof they have falsified the EPC? Do you know 100% that they haven't made improvements to property that would result in a new EPC grade? 

NameUnavailable

TheJP said:

adviseforumthanks said:

NameUnavailable said:
You still haven't said why you're so interested in this particular property? I'm buying a flat at the moment and looking at EPC's for others in the same block I see a lot of variance. The EPC system is not really fit for purpose at it is. But what is the purpose of your crusade? Energy (no pun) would better be directed at system reform rather than one random property.

Just do thing locally as it effects people around you and its what you know best. There's a difference between varying EPC opinions and what we see as deliberately, falsely, EPC mis-grading. Why should they think they can get away with it when the MEES law was changed for a reason.

But do you have actual proof they have falsified the EPC? Do you know 100% that they haven't made improvements to property that would result in a new EPC grade? 

This....

NameUnavailable

Section62 said:

NameUnavailable said:

You still haven't said why you're so interested in this particular property? I'm buying a flat at the moment and looking at EPC's for others in the same block I see a lot of variance. The EPC system is not really fit for purpose at it is.

But what is the purpose of your crusade? Energy (no pun) would better be directed at system reform rather than one random property.

Why does it matter?

Can we not just discuss the issues rather than question the OP's motivation?

AFAIK the forum rules don't require posters to explain themselves and their motivations.


And the OP has raised an interesting discussion topic which may have a lot more relevance to other people as restrictions on mortgages, preferential interest rates, and cashback and incentives - all linked to EPC ratings - become more common.

I'm interested in this thread because I've always had doubts about the EPC system, and think it will get worse when there are significant financial incentives available when buying and/or remortgaging to have an EPC 'finessed'.

And "system reform" is only going to come about when attention is drawn to specific abuses of the system.

True, their motivation shouldn't matter to me or anyone else. I was just curious as to the root problem (purchase, tenant etc.).

With the propsed reforms coming in at some point and in some form, EPC's are going to become a lot more important for everyone. What is clear is that the current system isn't fit for purpose, given how much variance there can be with ratings and that much is done one the individual assesors opinions rather than fact.

The case here is either down to that same variance of opinion, or possibly some improvements were made that the OP isn't aware of. If this is part of some campaign about the flaws of the EPC system then I applaud it!

ComicGeek

The current EPC system does work when operated by experienced, knowledgeable assessors. There are clear conventions to follow, and plenty of guidance available. The whole point is that 2 assessors SHOULD be able to assess the same property and get exactly the same rating. There isn't any 'opinion' if done properly. 

It takes time to check all aspects of the building, including measuring thickness of external walls, looking for evidence of insulation, asking the owners for evidence of retrofits, looking up property records and planning consents to ascertain build age, taking all of the evidence photos, completing the site notes etc. 

However you can't do that for less than minimum wage, which is ultimately what the prices dropped down to. And that's without taking time to think and consider what you are including, and double checking key entries.

A surveyor can charge £400 to do a building survey (with lots of gaps for incoming services, heating, electrics etc that they don't cover) and no one questions it - the EPC should be at least be £200 to provide a high quality result, but no one is currently going to pay that as they don't see the value in it.

If someone is only being paid minimum wage, then they won't take time, and only use defaults. No time taken to reflect (which is actually a requirement within the regs).

Not defending it, just explaining (as an ex-RdSAP assessor) why it doesn't work in its current format.