Falsified EPCs created by an Assessor - urgency to do something...

FreeBear

adviseforumthanks said: The new EPC's were discussed with the old assessor who was shocked how the new assessor arrived at the new conclusions.

How about calling on the old assessor to generate a new EPC ?

It will cost you a few quid, but would settle the argument about the current certificate being falsified - If there ends up being a large discrepancy, you then have evidence to wave under the noses of the relevant authorities.

fewcloudy

adviseforumthanks said:

p00hsticks said:

I keep seeing this being stated on this board and it's not true. A landlord can apply for an exemption for a grade F or G property if the cost of making the suggested improvements to get it to a Grade E or below would be prohibitive (more than £3,500) or of they would damage the structure of the building

Correct. But not even that has been done - and £3500 would go a long way to changing things. Plus I think additional certs are needed to prove remediation cannot be done - which is different to faking the EPC. The EPC still has to be done correctly. 

Are you a tenant here or what?

TheJP

You aren't being clear as to how you (we) relate to this situation. Are you a tenant or previous owner? If you are neither then why are you even getting this deeply involved. If i was the tenant im not sure i would be comfortable with someone not connected doing what you are doing, could create issues for the tenant.

Could the original assessor have missed something that graded it to a G/E?

Slinky

adviseforumthanks said:

GDB2222 said:

EPCs are very carefully worked out using software, and the calculations cannot really be rigged. However, assumptions have to be made about the construction of the property, as the assessor can’t pull the place apart to check. Those assumptions definitely can be rigged. 

Or maybe some work has been done? It’s possible to make a big difference just by adding loft insulation, for example. I don’t know how the OP knows what work has been done?

We know the properties as they are local and we knew the past tenants. Other than a lick of paint nothing has changed. Its a historic building with old sash windows and is Grade II listed - some of the points: 

- Roof in Room is missing from these new EPCs 
- Roof insulation cannot be assume when there is no loft (as there is a room there)
- The age of these properties does not permit assumptions of wall insulation
- Floors cannot be insulated as due to the age of the building
- No central heating and only electric storage heaters

The new EPC's were discussed with the accreditation company and they agreed something was not right. 

The new EPC's were discussed with the old assessor who was shocked how the new assessor arrived at the new conclusions. 

It feels clear that they have been rigged by the new assessor to make it convenient.

Is the room in the loft missing from the details because it has now been closed off and insulated? We had a boarded loft for storage which we have largely covered in loft insulation.

Section62

TheJP said:

If i was the tenant im not sure i would be comfortable with someone not connected doing what you are doing, could create issues for the tenant.

From the OP's posts it appears the properties are currently being marketed to prospective tenants - which implies there are no tenants in-situ.

The prospective tenants would surely benefit from the OP's diligence in trying to make sure they are not misled into renting a property which is being (allegedly) falsely represented to them?

adviseforumthanks

Slinky said:

Is the room in the loft missing from the details because it has now been closed off and insulated? We had a boarded loft for storage which we have largely covered in loft insulation.

Nope, we can see the rental listings online and the room is as it is. 

TheJP

Section62 said:

TheJP said:

If i was the tenant im not sure i would be comfortable with someone not connected doing what you are doing, could create issues for the tenant.

From the OP's posts it appears the properties are currently being marketed to prospective tenants - which implies there are no tenants in-situ.

The prospective tenants would surely benefit from the OP's diligence in trying to make sure they are not misled into renting a property which is being (allegedly) falsely represented to them?

I think there is more to this than someone not connected to the property doing due diligence on behalf of someone they don't know. 

It sounds like a personal vendetta for some unknown reason or perhaps they were the previous tenants? The OPs unwillingness to clarify what their position in all of this makes it feel like not all of what they say are factual.

adviseforumthanks

.. some of my responses are not being posted - so bear with me as may have a few tech issues. Will reply and appreciate the constructive replies. 

Section62

TheJP said:

Section62 said:

TheJP said:

If i was the tenant im not sure i would be comfortable with someone not connected doing what you are doing, could create issues for the tenant.

From the OP's posts it appears the properties are currently being marketed to prospective tenants - which implies there are no tenants in-situ.

The prospective tenants would surely benefit from the OP's diligence in trying to make sure they are not misled into renting a property which is being (allegedly) falsely represented to them?

I think there is more to this than someone not connected to the property doing due diligence on behalf of someone they don't know. 

It sounds like a personal vendetta for some unknown reason or perhaps they were the previous tenants? The OPs unwillingness to clarify what their position in all of this makes it feel like not all of what they say are factual.

Does that matter?

The location, people, and companies involved are not identified, therefore the thread can stand as a theoretical discussion about 'what if' a would-be landlord works with an EPC assessor to obtain an EPC better than the property should have.

I'm fairly certain that if the thread had been started by a new tenant of an accidental landlord who'd conspired with a crooked EPC assessor to be able to rent the property out, by now the pair of them would have been tarred and feathered with no questions asked.

So I'll give the OP the benefit of any doubt that they are making this enquiry for some genuine purpose. I'd possibly go further and suggest if the circumstances are something along the lines you suggest (e.g. previous tenants) then it would be perfectly valid for them to be discrete or ambiguous about some of the details to avoid being identified and facing possible repercussions.

adviseforumthanks

Thanks. These are great historic property and would make a lovely family homes with a bit or work. We are frustrated that the LL has got fake EPC's and renting them out on the cheap and charging a lot of money per month to unsuspecting tenants. The attitude, when we contact the dodge EPC assessor was stunning, asking to be paid to change anything and then personal negativity when he was shown how his EPC must have been falsified. This could be rife in the industry, but if local people with local knowledge call out wrong things, then it gets better for everyone. 

Elmhurst

Stroma
ECMK Ltd
Quidos
Sterling Accreditation
CIBSE

It seems like these types accreditation companies get audited regularly by government bodies, but without knowing who to complain too - its hard to make them accountable when they do not do anything about fake EPCs.