Falsified EPCs created by an Assessor - urgency to do something...

adviseforumthanks

Welcome any input, this is the situation...

There is a historic detached old house containing two semi-detached homes within a local housing complex, for years it has been too cold for tenants and we have seen how families have struggled living within the homes. 

Both homes recently sold to new landlords and prior to the sale were EPC graded G and F. We hoped the new landlords would get the properties fixed and up to standards, but shortly after they were sold, new EPCs appeared for the two homes suddenly graded C by the new assessor. 

We know the new EPC's have been falsified as nothing was changed in the properties, the new EPCs have got errors about the structure of the building - and because of a recent law change we understand the landlords cannot rent unless the EPC is at least an E grade - hence the motive to get them graded higher. 

We have complained to the EPC assesor who refused to do anything without payment. We then complained to the assessor's EPC registered scheme who say they will investigate the new EPCs, but after 10 days they are currently dithering. We asked them to void the new EPC's pending their investigation  - they are not doing that even though they also think the new EPCs must be wrong. 

We also bought it to the attention of our local authority Trading Standards - but not sure what they will do in any timely manner.  Even tried reaching out to the Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy (as they look after rental market EPC's accreditation processes) - but nothing. 

The issue is that Estate agents are currently marketing the properties, as the current falsified EPC grade is C on the Gov website. Potential new tenants are being duped. We have also complained to the Estate Agents and provided evidence how these new EPCs are false - but they are just carrying on marketing and ignoring the evidence. 

We find it awful how an EPC assessor would falsify the EPC to benefit the landlord who then does not have to do any works to make them into better homes. The spiralling costs of energy are then the responsibility of the tenants and the smaller rooms which are generally children's rooms, never get warm enough not matter how much heating.  

Questions...

1) We feel the properties should be taken of the rental market until the works are done to make them complainant to the legal EPC requirements, or at least until the new EPC's are validated. Is there any way to do this?

2) If the properties are rented with an incorrect EPC (which is later voided) - what issues does this create? Would the landlord be required to get them to the right standards with tenants in situ? Would official notices like section 21 notices be valid and hence its a risk for a landlord to market with false EPCs? Would the estate agents (who have been told the EPC's are suspicious) have any responsibility as we understand its illegal for them to rent anything at the wrong grade?

3) If its the job of the EPC accreditation scheme to ensure their assessor's are doing the job right, who makes sure the schemes have accountability? I understand the BEIS Gov department are supposed to be responsible for England's rental EPCs scheme? 

In these times we are all thinking about energy and insulation, I welcome any input as we want to act quickly to stop the public from being conned by the assessor, landlord & agents - who just don't seem to care and seem to be accepting that EPC fraud is rife and should continue. 

Pixie5740

adviseforumthanks said:

Welcome any input, this is the situation...

There is a historic detached old house containing two semi-detached homes within a local housing complex, for years it has been too cold for tenants and we have seen how families have struggled living within the homes. 

Both homes recently sold to new landlords and prior to the sale were EPC graded G and F. We hoped the new landlords would get the properties fixed and up to standards, but shortly after they were sold, new EPCs appeared for the two homes suddenly graded C by the new assessor. 

We know the new EPC's have been falsified as nothing was changed in the properties, the new EPCs have got errors about the structure of the building - and because of a recent law change we understand the landlords cannot rent unless the EPC is at least an E grade - hence the motive to get them graded higher. 

We have complained to the EPC assesor who refused to do anything without payment. We then complained to the assessor's EPC registered scheme who say they will investigate the new EPCs, but after 10 days they are currently dithering. We asked them to void the new EPC's pending their investigation  - they are not doing that even though they also think the new EPCs must be wrong. 

We also bought it to the attention of our local authority Trading Standards - but not sure what they will do in any timely manner.  Even tried reaching out to the Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy (as they look after rental market EPC's accreditation processes) - but nothing. 

The issue is that Estate agents are currently marketing the properties, as the current falsified EPC grade is C on the Gov website. Potential new tenants are being duped. We have also complained to the Estate Agents and provided evidence how these new EPCs are false - but they are just carrying on marketing and ignoring the evidence. 

We find it awful how an EPC assessor would falsify the EPC to benefit the landlord who then does not have to do any works to make them into better homes. The spiralling costs of energy are then the responsibility of the tenants and the smaller rooms which are generally children's rooms, never get warm enough not matter how much heating.  

Questions...

1) We feel the properties should be taken of the rental market until the works are done to make them complainant to the legal EPC requirements, or at least until the new EPC's are validated. Is there any way to do this?

2) If the properties are rented with an incorrect EPC (which is later voided) - what issues does this create? Would the landlord be required to get them to the right standards with tenants in situ? Would official notices like section 21 notices be valid and hence its a risk for a landlord to market with false EPCs? Would the estate agents (who have been told the EPC's are suspicious) have any responsibility as we understand its illegal for them to rent anything at the wrong grade?

3) If its the job of the EPC accreditation scheme to ensure their assessor's are doing the job right, who makes sure the schemes have accountability? I understand the BEIS Gov department are supposed to be responsible for England's rental EPCs scheme? 

In these times we are all thinking about energy and insulation, I welcome any input as we want to act quickly to stop the public from being conned by the assessor, landlord & agents - who just don't seem to care and seem to be accepting that EPC fraud is rife and should continue. 

There isn't really anything you're going to be able to do about this quickly.  The letting agency is advertising the property based on the EPC made available to them so I don't think you could go after them.

G and F to C is a big jump.  Are you sure work hasn't been done to the properties?  If someone were to falsify the EPC you think they'd choose something more believable like a G to E.  The EPC themselves are flawed in their assessment.  There was a good thread about EPC ratings and mortgages the other week where posters discussed things that made their homes more efficient/better insulated that the EPC just didn't know how to account for.  Have you been able to view either of the properties yourself posing as a potential tenant?

anselld

What is your interest in this?
EPCs are notoriously unreliable and open to a large margin of interpretation by the assessor.  The assessment allows assumptions to be made about elements which are not readily visible, so one assessor can make more optimistic assumptions than another.  Significant improvements can also be made with changes which are not highly visible, eg new condensing boiler, TRVs, led lighting, etc.  So what actual evidence do you have that indicate some sort of fraud?  What do the detailed elements of the EPC state which are visibly and obviously incorrect?

user1977

anselld said:

What is your interest in this?

Indeed, the OP hasn't actually said who "we" are. Are they one of the tenants?

GDB2222

EPCs are very carefully worked out using software, and the calculations cannot really be rigged. However, assumptions have to be made about the construction of the property, as the assessor can’t pull the place apart to check. Those assumptions definitely can be rigged. 

Or maybe some work has been done? It’s possible to make a big difference just by adding loft insulation, for example. I don’t know how the OP knows what work has been done?

SpiderLegs

Well it’s sounds like we have taken the correct action and reported our concerns to the relevant responsible groups.

However it now sounds like we are off on some crazed vendetta for some reasons that we have not explained. I think we may need to calm down a bit and let those who’s job it is to investigate, actually have the time to investigate.

adviseforumthanks

GDB2222 said:

EPCs are very carefully worked out using software, and the calculations cannot really be rigged. However, assumptions have to be made about the construction of the property, as the assessor can’t pull the place apart to check. Those assumptions definitely can be rigged. 

Or maybe some work has been done? It’s possible to make a big difference just by adding loft insulation, for example. I don’t know how the OP knows what work has been done?

We know the properties as they are local and we knew the past tenants. Other than a lick of paint nothing has changed. Its a historic building with old sash windows and is Grade II listed - some of the points: 

- Roof in Room is missing from these new EPCs 
- Roof insulation cannot be assume when there is no loft (as there is a room there)
- The age of these properties does not permit assumptions of wall insulation
- Floors cannot be insulated as due to the age of the building
- No central heating and only electric storage heaters

The new EPC's were discussed with the accreditation company and they agreed something was not right. 

The new EPC's were discussed with the old assessor who was shocked how the new assessor arrived at the new conclusions. 

It feels clear that they have been rigged by the new assessor to make it convenient.

p00hsticks

adviseforumthanks said:

- and because of a recent law change we understand the landlords cannot rent unless the EPC is at least an E grade -

I keep seeing this being stated on this board and it's not true. A landlord can apply for an exemption for a grade F or G property if the cost of making the suggested improvements to get it to a Grade E or below would be prohibitive (more than £3,500) or of they would damage the structure of the building

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-private-rented-property-minimum-energy-efficiency-standard-landlord-guidance

adviseforumthanks

Pixie5740 said:

There isn't really anything you're going to be able to do about this quickly.  The letting agency is advertising the property based on the EPC made available to them so I don't think you could go after them.

This is the annoying thing. One to the letting agencies is one man band and don't expect anything else, the other is a large corporate and would think they would delist, if something is potentially falsified they would not marketed by principles (but they are).

My other question if a place is rented on a false EPC, what would be the ramifications? Are landlord notices invalid, or can be thrown out by a judge if things are not done properly - and therefore the agents are not even acting in the interests of the landlord?

adviseforumthanks

SpiderLegs said:

Well it’s sounds like we have taken the correct action and reported our concerns to the relevant responsible groups.

Well, not really. The accreditation company said "we take all complaint seriously" blah, blah - but they not responding in the timelines they indicated.  If the EPC accreditation company is not doing its job, where do we report that? I understand BEIS appoints the accreditation companies that then train and hire the EPC assessors? By indicating somewhere specific we can report this company - it may get its finger out its ear - if there is any chance it could loose its accreditation.

adviseforumthanks

p00hsticks said:

I keep seeing this being stated on this board and it's not true. A landlord can apply for an exemption for a grade F or G property if the cost of making the suggested improvements to get it to a Grade E or below would be prohibitive (more than £3,500) or of they would damage the structure of the building

Correct. But not even that has been done - and £3500 would go a long way to changing things. Plus I think additional certs are needed to prove remediation cannot be done - which is different to faking the EPC. The EPC still has to be done correctly.