No pet clause in share of freehold

FataVerde

The share of freehold I'm trying to buy has the clause below in the original lease: "No bird dog or other animal shall be kept in any maisonette if the same shall or may in the opinion of the Lessor cause annoyance to the owners, lessees or occupiers of any other maisonette."

I have a cat so not being able to keep a pet is a deal breaker to me as I am not keen to have less rights than I currently have as a tenant. Can a clause like this be easily removed on my purchase (meaning without extra fees, etc for drawing up a new lease)? I plan to ask the vendor if they can agree with the co-freeholder to either remove this clause or include an exception for cats. I would share the freehold with one other neighbour and this lease has a couple of strange clauses (no playing piano in the garden or drying laundry in the garden, which I can live without), but it makes me think I have a rather peculiar neighbour/co-freeholder.

lookstraightahead

It's a very common clause. I don't think you will be able to remove it easily, and therefore is probably a deal breaker. It happens a lot where you share the freehold.

I think all the flats I lived in in the past had this clause of no pets, and also no drying laundry outside (as it affects the way the building looks). I also had a clause (when I rented but it was for all owners as well) of not playing musical instruments after 10pm.

if you want 'rights' you're probably best to find a place where you are the only freeholder. 

AskAsk

most leases have the clause about pets so this is not uncommon.  it does state if the animal is considered a nuisance so if the cat is not a nuisance to anyone then it will be fine.

our house deed states we can not dry washing on a weekend but we can do so on a week day.  our house is freehold and of course no one is going to challenge us for drying our clothes on a weekend.  you could ask the other freeholder if they would be OK with the cat, but as said already, it won't be possible to change the deed and lease wordings easily if at all.

eddddy

Are there just 2 joint freeholders (i.e. it's a pair of maisonettes)?

Doing an official 'Lease Variation' to change any clauses will probably be a big deal - maybe £1k to £2k in legal fees etc. It would need the agreement and cooperation of both freeholders/leaseholders, plus the agreement of both mortgage lenders.


But tbh, it sounds like you can keep a cat unless "in the opinion of the lessor (i.e. freeholder)" it causes a nuisance.

The lessor/freeholder will be two of you - so that means you have to jointly agree that the cat causes a nuisance. And I doubt you would agree that.

(But given the terms of the lease, maybe you should find out your co-freeholders views on you keeping a cat - rather than wlking into a dispute.)

FataVerde said:

I would share the freehold with one other neighbour and this lease has a couple of strange clauses (no playing piano in the garden or drying laundry in the garden, which I can live without), but it makes me think I have a rather peculiar neighbour/co-freeholder.

The wording of the lease is very unlikely to have anything to do with the co-freeholder (or the seller).  It's probably still the same wording from when the original freeholder granted the leases.

user1977

If it's just your neighbour you need to worry about, you're probably safe enough to get their informal agreement that they're happy with you having a cat. There might be the risk of a future neighbour having a different opinion, but how objectionable would your cat have to be before somebody goes to the trouble and expense of enforcing the clause? If they really dislike your cat that much, you're probably going to have problems with them whatever the lease says!

FataVerde

eddddy said:

Are there just 2 joint freeholders (i.e. it's a pair of maisonettes)?

Doing an official 'Lease Variation' to change any clauses will probably be a big deal - maybe £1k to £2k in legal fees etc. It would need the agreement and cooperation of both freeholders/leaseholders, plus the agreement of both mortgage lenders.


But tbh, it sounds like you can keep a cat unless "in the opinion of the lessor (i.e. freeholder)" it causes a nuisance.

The lessor/freeholder will be two of you - so that means you have to jointly agree that the cat causes a nuisance. And I doubt you would agree that.

(But given the terms of the lease, maybe you should find out your co-freeholders views on you keeping a cat - rather than wlking into a dispute.)

FataVerde said:

I would share the freehold with one other neighbour and this lease has a couple of strange clauses (no playing piano in the garden or drying laundry in the garden, which I can live without), but it makes me think I have a rather peculiar neighbour/co-freeholder.

The wording of the lease is very unlikely to have anything to do with the co-freeholder (or the seller).  It's probably still the same wording from when the original freeholder granted the leases.

Thank you! Yes, it's just 2 freeholders in a pair of maisonettes. Would I still need their consent or is me agreeing enough since it's just 50%? I tried to have an informal chat with the neighbour after getting the offer accepted (so before i was aware of this clause), but she did not want to talk (I was a stranger off the street, it makes sense). The seller also refused to introduce us saying it's premature and she would only do it after exchange so there is not easy way to get that informal confirmation, but I can try via the EA and my solicitor.

They created a "renewal lease" and a "deed of covenant" (both came with the legal pack) when they got the share of freehold. I would have thought they could have gotten rid of defunct clauses if they wanted that's why I asked how difficult/costly it would be to get the clause removed. On the other hand, the flat has a catflap so somebody might have had a cat in the past on this lease.

This being said my cat is the typical skittish cat who sleeps 16h a day. She's very much an outdoors cat so there will be no noise. I guess it's possible she might do sth to cause nuisance such as ruining a plant or pooping in the garden, although with so many pets around, it's hard to catch them in the act. It all depends on what neighbours consider nuisance. I never had any complaints where I currently live. On the contrary. But it would be a nightmare to buy the house and find I need to abandon my pet.

bouicca21

Just knock on the neighbour’s door (perhaps with cake in case you get invited in),  introduce yourself and ask how they feel about cats.

All the flats in my block are allowed one pet.  One has two but they are indoor cats so no one is going to complain.  An outdoor cat pooping in the garden and deterring the birds would seriously !!!!!! me off, but I’d probably seethe rather than complain.  If the neighbour wants to attract birds they may well object to a cat.

PS we also have a no washing to be hung out clause, and we are not allowed to be immoral …

FataVerde

user1977 said:

If it's just your neighbour you need to worry about, you're probably safe enough to get their informal agreement that they're happy with you having a cat. There might be the risk of a future neighbour having a different opinion, but how objectionable would your cat have to be before somebody goes to the trouble and expense of enforcing the clause? If they really dislike your cat that much, you're probably going to have problems with them whatever the lease says!

So if the co-freeholder objected, they'd have to take me to court to enforce the law? Yes, the cat is not at all objectionable. She's really quiet, sleeping 2/3rds of the day and keeping the mouse population in check otherwise, but I know people who find cats an annoyance for say pooping in their garden or dropping a dead mouse, etc. once in a blue moon. I'll try to get an informal consent at least. I was hoping for sth more formal but if it's expensive and the clause is fairly common, I might not be able to get it removed.

FataVerde

AskAsk said:

most leases have the clause about pets so this is not uncommon.  it does state if the animal is considered a nuisance so if the cat is not a nuisance to anyone then it will be fine.

our house deed states we can not dry washing on a weekend but we can do so on a week day.  our house is freehold and of course no one is going to challenge us for drying our clothes on a weekend.  you could ask the other freeholder if they would be OK with the cat, but as said already, it won't be possible to change the deed and lease wordings easily if at all.

   It's important to hear these are common clauses and not an odd one out. I of course don't think the cat is a nuisance, but I read the clause as 'if the lessor thinks a cat could be a nuisance.' It doesn't seem like they'd have to prove nuisance, just think it could be one. Maybe I'm overthinking  

canaldumidi

Well when you knock on the neighbour's door for a chat (you are going to do that anyway, yes?), remember to ask their views on cats!.

user1977

FataVerde said:

user1977 said:

If it's just your neighbour you need to worry about, you're probably safe enough to get their informal agreement that they're happy with you having a cat. There might be the risk of a future neighbour having a different opinion, but how objectionable would your cat have to be before somebody goes to the trouble and expense of enforcing the clause? If they really dislike your cat that much, you're probably going to have problems with them whatever the lease says!

So if the co-freeholder objected, they'd have to take me to court to enforce the law? 

Yes, of course. They can't just kick your door in and remove your cat.