Faraday Pouch - Any Good News?

TheProfessional

I really like keyless entry/start.
I keep the keys in an old biscuit tin at home and tested it by walking around the car with it seeing if it would block it and it does.
I must check again!

At work I park far enough away that it is safe in a big work multistory 

macman

I've noted that some people locally on neighbourhood forums are suggesting keeping their keys in the microwave overnight, rather than spend a fiver on a Faraday bag. The shielding is probably very good, but it's going to make quite a spectacular arcing display when they forget and start microwaving their key fobs... 

BOWFER

I'm quite amazed as to how many people think a car thief will 'move on' if they want their car but can't clone the key remotely.
Perhaps they see the fact their car hasn't been stolen as proof their techniques work (which is evidently madness)
If there were no evidence of houses getting robbed quietly, or noisily, for keys I'd maybe believe them.

Ditzy_Mitzy

Manxman_in_exile said:

Please forgive me for asking a really really stupid question (I'm quite old fashioned and a bit of a luddite) but what exactly is the point of keyless entry and/or start systems?

I can see it must have been a great selling point for whichever manufacturer first came up with it and that it would have been very popular with young - and not so young - executives wanting to show how tech-savvy they were and that they had the latest toy to play with, but what actually is the point?

It just sems to me to be a needless technological solution to a problem that has never really existed.  Especially if it assists ne'er-do-wells to steal your car more easily by "nicking" your keyless radio waves, or allows this:

BOWFER said:

motorguy said:

JJ_Egan said:

I thought the majority of new cars required the card to be inside the car to start .

Our cars allow you just to touch the door handles to unlock the car so they must work with the key being within a certain distance of the car.

These systems are sold as keyless entry, not keyless start.

...
And either of them will happily let a person drive away leaving the key behind, until you run out of fuel.
You'll get warnings, of course, but a thief could theoretically drive hundreds of miles without any problem.

I'm sure there must be some benefits, but if it allows the above to happen... 

Being honest, I suspect it's because keyless entry systems are cheaper to manufacture than the old style key in lock setup.  The problem is not door locking, but the need for an ignition barrel assembly on a keyed car.  The barrel itself has to be made and has to be very strong.  That gives it a basic cost and also causes complications vis a vis collapsible steering columns and crash safety in general.  It's not great to have a heavy, solid object in the vicinity of the driver from a safety point of view.  Doing away with an ignition barrel entirely saves a lot of money at the development stage, because it doesn't need to be accounted for safety-wise.  I predict that all cars will become keyless in the next few years; after all it's not that complicated technologically speaking and a couple of circuit boards cost less than a lump of heavy metal.  
From the security perspective, keyless ignition is a huge retrograde step.  Mid 2000s keyed cars with proper immobilisers were extremely difficult to steal, given the combination of simple and tough electronics and a mechanical backup.  A car thief needed to have both skills to get one started.  Keyless ignition has all sorts of weak points electronically and no mechanical failsafe, so is far easier to crack.  For the life of me I can't work out why manufacturers refuse to allow it to be switched off.  If allowed, the keyless 'key' could work as a conventional transponder with lock and unlock buttons, to work in conjunction with the starter button in the car.  

ontheroad1970

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Please forgive me for asking a really really stupid question (I'm quite old fashioned and a bit of a luddite) but what exactly is the point of keyless entry and/or start systems?

I can see it must have been a great selling point for whichever manufacturer first came up with it and that it would have been very popular with young - and not so young - executives wanting to show how tech-savvy they were and that they had the latest toy to play with, but what actually is the point?

It just sems to me to be a needless technological solution to a problem that has never really existed.  Especially if it assists ne'er-do-wells to steal your car more easily by "nicking" your keyless radio waves, or allows this:

BOWFER said:

motorguy said:

JJ_Egan said:

I thought the majority of new cars required the card to be inside the car to start .

Our cars allow you just to touch the door handles to unlock the car so they must work with the key being within a certain distance of the car.

These systems are sold as keyless entry, not keyless start.

...
And either of them will happily let a person drive away leaving the key behind, until you run out of fuel.
You'll get warnings, of course, but a thief could theoretically drive hundreds of miles without any problem.

I'm sure there must be some benefits, but if it allows the above to happen... 

Being honest, I suspect it's because keyless entry systems are cheaper to manufacture than the old style key in lock setup.  The problem is not door locking, but the need for an ignition barrel assembly on a keyed car.  The barrel itself has to be made and has to be very strong.  That gives it a basic cost and also causes complications vis a vis collapsible steering columns and crash safety in general.  It's not great to have a heavy, solid object in the vicinity of the driver from a safety point of view.  Doing away with an ignition barrel entirely saves a lot of money at the development stage, because it doesn't need to be accounted for safety-wise.  I predict that all cars will become keyless in the next few years; after all it's not that complicated technologically speaking and a couple of circuit boards cost less than a lump of heavy metal.  
From the security perspective, keyless ignition is a huge retrograde step.  Mid 2000s keyed cars with proper immobilisers were extremely difficult to steal, given the combination of simple and tough electronics and a mechanical backup.  A car thief needed to have both skills to get one started.  Keyless ignition has all sorts of weak points electronically and no mechanical failsafe, so is far easier to crack.  For the life of me I can't work out why manufacturers refuse to allow it to be switched off.  If allowed, the keyless 'key' could work as a conventional transponder with lock and unlock buttons, to work in conjunction with the starter button in the car.  

My car has keyless entry and start, but still has a keyhole and a key inside the fob.

Jenni_D

But no ignition barrel on the steering column - which was the point being made.  

BOWFER

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

  I predict that all cars will become keyless in the next few years; after all it's not that complicated technologically speaking and a couple of circuit boards cost less than a lump of heavy metal.  

Hopefully literally keyless, using a PIN or facial recognition.

troffasky

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

For the life of me I can't work out why manufacturers refuse to allow it to be switched off.  If allowed, the keyless 'key' could work as a conventional transponder with lock and unlock buttons, to work in conjunction with the starter button in the car.  

Quite. I would be a lot happier with "keyless" keys if the owner had choice of putting the car into secure mode so it could only be started if the key was in a specific physical location in the car, eg in a little cubby or what have you. Ideally secure mode would be the default, and if you wanted it so that it would start so long as the car can "hear" the key then you would have to enable insecure mode first.

Ectophile

troffasky said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

For the life of me I can't work out why manufacturers refuse to allow it to be switched off.  If allowed, the keyless 'key' could work as a conventional transponder with lock and unlock buttons, to work in conjunction with the starter button in the car.  

Quite. I would be a lot happier with "keyless" keys if the owner had choice of putting the car into secure mode so it could only be started if the key was in a specific physical location in the car, eg in a little cubby or what have you. Ideally secure mode would be the default, and if you wanted it so that it would start so long as the car can "hear" the key then you would have to enable insecure mode first.

My 2010 Land Rover has something like that.  There's a slot on the dashboard, and a Start button above it.  To start the car, you have to push the keyfob into the slot and press Start.  If the keyfob isn't there, it won't start.

scrappy_returns

Faraday cages pouches wear out due to to people putting their keyS in. It's not just the action of taking the car key in and out but the other keys with it, door keys etc. I've countered this by buying a bigger pouch for my main keys and the small pouch for the spare. Seems to work out OK but I keep checking regularly and have a spare if needed.