Pub owned by brewery

user1977

DB1904 said:

user1977 said:

DB1904 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

DB1904 said:

user1977 said:

diggerDan696969 said:

Certainly has, it’s called deceit, taking my money without any intention of providing the service paid for. 

They may not have provided the service paid for, but what's the evidence of criminality? What did the police say?

If the OP is reporting a crime, what additional verifiable information can you see indicating one hasn't taken place?

Perhaps I'm being particularly thick this evening, but I don't understand your response to user1977's post.  Are you disagreeing with him and saying that there is evidence of criminality, or agreeing that there is no evidence of criminality?

(I think that what user1977 was suggesting was that there wasn't necessarily any evidence of dishonesty based on what the OP has said, because the OP doesn't know what the intent of the people who took his money was at the time they took it.  Indeed, we know none of the details of what has happened at all except that the OP thinks he is a victim of deceit/fraud.  It would be useful to know what has actually happened).

One could argue it was dishonestly appropriated when they failed to return it and had no intention of completing the work. That is theft. 

The point is you need to prove the lack of intention. I've never heard of a business being prosecuted because they've been too slow in doing the work they've been paid to do.

Besides, even if the police were interested, it's not their job to recover the debt on behalf of the OP.

No you don't, read the points to prove for theft. 

You'll need to talk us through that one. Intention is relevant if you want to turn this into a crime.

DB1904

user1977 said:

DB1904 said:

user1977 said:

DB1904 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

DB1904 said:

user1977 said:

diggerDan696969 said:

Certainly has, it’s called deceit, taking my money without any intention of providing the service paid for. 

They may not have provided the service paid for, but what's the evidence of criminality? What did the police say?

If the OP is reporting a crime, what additional verifiable information can you see indicating one hasn't taken place?

Perhaps I'm being particularly thick this evening, but I don't understand your response to user1977's post.  Are you disagreeing with him and saying that there is evidence of criminality, or agreeing that there is no evidence of criminality?

(I think that what user1977 was suggesting was that there wasn't necessarily any evidence of dishonesty based on what the OP has said, because the OP doesn't know what the intent of the people who took his money was at the time they took it.  Indeed, we know none of the details of what has happened at all except that the OP thinks he is a victim of deceit/fraud.  It would be useful to know what has actually happened).

One could argue it was dishonestly appropriated when they failed to return it and had no intention of completing the work. That is theft. 

The point is you need to prove the lack of intention. I've never heard of a business being prosecuted because they've been too slow in doing the work they've been paid to do.

Besides, even if the police were interested, it's not their job to recover the debt on behalf of the OP.

No you don't, read the points to prove for theft. 

You'll need to talk us through that one. Intention is relevant if you want to turn this into a crime.

I don't disagree, but no theft would be a crime until you prove dishonesty. Are you saying no thefts should be investigated? 

user1977

DB1904 said:

user1977 said:

DB1904 said:

user1977 said:

DB1904 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

DB1904 said:

user1977 said:

diggerDan696969 said:

Certainly has, it’s called deceit, taking my money without any intention of providing the service paid for. 

They may not have provided the service paid for, but what's the evidence of criminality? What did the police say?

If the OP is reporting a crime, what additional verifiable information can you see indicating one hasn't taken place?

Perhaps I'm being particularly thick this evening, but I don't understand your response to user1977's post.  Are you disagreeing with him and saying that there is evidence of criminality, or agreeing that there is no evidence of criminality?

(I think that what user1977 was suggesting was that there wasn't necessarily any evidence of dishonesty based on what the OP has said, because the OP doesn't know what the intent of the people who took his money was at the time they took it.  Indeed, we know none of the details of what has happened at all except that the OP thinks he is a victim of deceit/fraud.  It would be useful to know what has actually happened).

One could argue it was dishonestly appropriated when they failed to return it and had no intention of completing the work. That is theft. 

The point is you need to prove the lack of intention. I've never heard of a business being prosecuted because they've been too slow in doing the work they've been paid to do.

Besides, even if the police were interested, it's not their job to recover the debt on behalf of the OP.

No you don't, read the points to prove for theft. 

You'll need to talk us through that one. Intention is relevant if you want to turn this into a crime.

I don't disagree, but no theft would be a crime until you prove dishonesty. Are you saying no thefts should be investigated? 

Should every case of somebody allegedly owing money to somebody else be treated as if it were potentially a crime? I'm not sure what distinguishes this case from millions of other civil disputes.

JJC1956

diggerDan696969 said:

Good afternoon, I was wondering if there was anyway I could find out which brewery owns a certain pub?

it’s to complain and I’ve already done it to the manager and it has fallen on deaf ears !!!

cheers

Getting back to your original question, contact your local licensing officer, it might be a policeman but more likely a council official. 

DB1904

user1977 said:

DB1904 said:

user1977 said:

DB1904 said:

user1977 said:

DB1904 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

DB1904 said:

user1977 said:

diggerDan696969 said:

Certainly has, it’s called deceit, taking my money without any intention of providing the service paid for. 

They may not have provided the service paid for, but what's the evidence of criminality? What did the police say?

If the OP is reporting a crime, what additional verifiable information can you see indicating one hasn't taken place?

Perhaps I'm being particularly thick this evening, but I don't understand your response to user1977's post.  Are you disagreeing with him and saying that there is evidence of criminality, or agreeing that there is no evidence of criminality?

(I think that what user1977 was suggesting was that there wasn't necessarily any evidence of dishonesty based on what the OP has said, because the OP doesn't know what the intent of the people who took his money was at the time they took it.  Indeed, we know none of the details of what has happened at all except that the OP thinks he is a victim of deceit/fraud.  It would be useful to know what has actually happened).

One could argue it was dishonestly appropriated when they failed to return it and had no intention of completing the work. That is theft. 

The point is you need to prove the lack of intention. I've never heard of a business being prosecuted because they've been too slow in doing the work they've been paid to do.

Besides, even if the police were interested, it's not their job to recover the debt on behalf of the OP.

No you don't, read the points to prove for theft. 

You'll need to talk us through that one. Intention is relevant if you want to turn this into a crime.

I don't disagree, but no theft would be a crime until you prove dishonesty. Are you saying no thefts should be investigated? 

Should every case of somebody allegedly owing money to somebody else be treated as if it were potentially a crime? I'm not sure what distinguishes this case from millions of other civil disputes.

So why do you decide this is a civil dispute if you're not sure?

jimbo6977

The big pubcos are generally members of the BBPA and are listed here
https://beerandpub.com/bbpa-members/

Not all of them list all of their properties on their sites, but you could email them to ask regarding the pub in question. 

Manxman_in_exile

DB1904 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

DB1904 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

DB1904 said:

user1977 said:

diggerDan696969 said:

Certainly has, it’s called deceit, taking my money without any intention of providing the service paid for. 

They may not have provided the service paid for, but what's the evidence of criminality? What did the police say?

If the OP is reporting a crime, what additional verifiable information can you see indicating one hasn't taken place?

Perhaps I'm being particularly thick this evening, but I don't understand your response to user1977's post.  Are you disagreeing with him and saying that there is evidence of criminality, or agreeing that there is no evidence of criminality?

(I think that what user1977 was suggesting was that there wasn't necessarily any evidence of dishonesty based on what the OP has said, because the OP doesn't know what the intent of the people who took his money was at the time they took it.  Indeed, we know none of the details of what has happened at all except that the OP thinks he is a victim of deceit/fraud.  It would be useful to know what has actually happened).

One could argue it was dishonestly appropriated when they failed to return it and had no intention of completing the work. That is theft. 

But none of us know exactly what has happened!  The OP is remarkably light on any informative detail.

Same with any other thread on here, yet you have an opinion about this one. 

If you had bothered to read my posts properly on this thread you will see that I have formed no opinion whatsoever on this. 

The OP has provided virtually no information at all about what has happened, and I've merely asked them to provide some detail* - any detail in fact - as to what has happened so that people who read this thread might be able to give them useful advice.  

Where have I given an opinion on this one?


*Like what reason has his bank given for not helping him.

born_again

So paid on a debit card at some point in 2020. So just what has the OP told the bank? Because this is going to be very close to the max 540 days for any action.
Bank would not treat it as fraud. As OP paid builder.