[rant] single journey fares are like a rip off that I start to think about getting a car

TheAble

gingercordial said:

Echoing those who say your public transport costs are still likely to be far cheaper than a car.

We own one small car, about 15 years old, bought outright.  It is mainly used for my husband's commute, 7 miles each way so in total about an hour of city driving per day (shift work including nights so public transport is less suitable for him) plus the occasional run to a retail park if we need something quickly.  He is over 40 with a clean licence so insurance rates are low.  We have to budget per month:

£80 petrol - just for the commute, more if we decide to go somewhere at the weekend
£30 tax
£20 car insurance - towards annual renewal of just over £200
£75 repairs - as it is an older car there is always something significant at the MOT, so we've found this to be sensible
£13 breakdown cover - with a packaged bank account so some of this is for travel/phone insurance as a bundle, but again with an older car you don't want to be stranded on the motorway

That comes to £218 per month just to run an old banger to and from work by an experienced, careful driver.  Also we have a drive and he has free parking at work so no costs for us there, but you might.

It doesn't even cover the separate funds needed to be put aside for eventual replacement - our last 20 year old car had a catastrophic engine failure during the first lockdown in April 2020 so we had to scramble to find something else to buy within walking distance and luckily we had enough emergency cash for that.

I do agree your situation with multiple bus companies sounds annoying.

7 miles each way - why would you not just bike this? 

£30/month in tax sounds an awful lot for a small car. I pay £20 a year! for my own 2015 reg. A £100 service every year or two keeps it in good working order. I understand the mentality of wanting to keep cars until they die but you do have to be realistic about when they're becoming uneconomical owing to their age.

TBagpuss

gingercordial said:

Echoing those who say your public transport costs are still likely to be far cheaper than a car.

We own one small car, about 15 years old, bought outright.  It is mainly used for my husband's commute, 7 miles each way so in total about an hour of city driving per day (shift work including nights so public transport is less suitable for him) plus the occasional run to a retail park if we need something quickly.  He is over 40 with a clean licence so insurance rates are low.  We have to budget per month:

£80 petrol - just for the commute, more if we decide to go somewhere at the weekend
£30 tax
£20 car insurance - towards annual renewal of just over £200
£75 repairs - as it is an older car there is always something significant at the MOT, so we've found this to be sensible
£13 breakdown cover - with a packaged bank account so some of this is for travel/phone insurance as a bundle, but again with an older car you don't want to be stranded on the motorway

That comes to £218 per month just to run an old banger to and from work by an experienced, careful driver.  Also we have a drive and he has free parking at work so no costs for us there, but you might.

It doesn't even cover the separate funds needed to be put aside for eventual replacement - our last 20 year old car had a catastrophic engine failure during the first lockdown in April 2020 so we had to scramble to find something else to buy within walking distance and luckily we had enough emergency cash for that.

I do agree your situation with multiple bus companies sounds annoying.

Mine, also with a smallish car are rather lower

- Insurance is about £130 a year and tax is £160, so about £24 a month in total.

- Fuel varies but probably about £60 a month on average - I mostly do a short commute but with some longer journey when I visit family etc. , so I spent about £120 on fuel in September as I had several long trips, but have only just filled up for the first time since the start of October . In normal times I do a bit more as I do some work-related driving but I claim the mileage back for that 

- service and repairs I think I spent about £1,000 over the past 12 months, but that was a bit unusual as I had 5 news tyres (one puncture plus normal replacements) I think in an average year it's probably closer to £600 .

My breakdown cover is about £60 a year. So excluding the cost of actually buying it / replacing it about £125 a month, excluding parking. I have a driveway and have free parking at work . I have had the car for 7 years and so far as I can recall paid about £7,000 when I got it. I have no immediate plans to replace it but will probably do so in the next year or two, so maybe allow £50 a month for depreciation/replacement cost.

I do use the train if I need to go to London, as it's quicker and more convenient. It's more expensive than driving but not massively so, and would be about the same as the petrol costs if I book advance tickets 

I live in a rural area with poor public transport so not having a car isn't practical for me.

I do think that insurance and running costs are a big consideration - I am lucky that the combination of my age, driving record and where I live means I don't pay a lot for insurance.

OP - have you looked into car clubs or even (depending on the length of your commute) a moped or electric bicycle, which might be better than public transport and cheaper to run than a car? 

sand_hun

I totally get what you're saying. A lot of UK train prices are ridiculously overpriced. Take Birmingham to Newcastle on 8/12th (over a week away). A single fare in standard class comes to £124.80 (you can get a return flight to Europe for less than that). It's an eye watering £303.90 for those who wish to travel first class from Birmingham to Newcastle. At these prices, is it any wonder that people choose to drive - thus adding to air pollution and congestion. 

giraffe69

You may think 8 Dec is more than a week away. I don't. If you go in 4 weeks time then you can go for £47(first class is £124). I think most people know that buying close to the deadline is more expensive. It is possible that you can use a railcard if you qualify. Also possible that split tickets may reduce the price. In short the maximum fare is only paid by
a. people on business trips who don't care as someone else is paying
b. people who really have to go at little or notice
c. people who are too lazy to be a bit organised

sand_hun

@giraffe69

You insinuate those who think fares are high are too lazy to be organised - is that really true? 

If we look at the price of the same journey on January 7th 2022 the cost is pretty much the same. £122 for a single from Birmingham to Newcastle in standard class. The point stands that fares are overpriced.

I don't qualify for a railcard and while split ticketing may shave off £10-15% why can't rail prices be more reasonable in the first place? While the fares remain high, people will continue to use cars instead.

giraffe69

sand_hun said:

@giraffe69

You insinuate those who think fares are high are too lazy to be organised - is that really true? 

If we look at the price of the same journey on January 7th 2022 the cost is pretty much the same. £122 for a single from Birmingham to Newcastle in standard class. The point stands that fares are overpriced.

I don't qualify for a railcard and while split ticketing may shave off £10-15% why can't rail prices be more reasonable in the first place? While the fares remain high, people will continue to use cars instead.

No it isn't. If you leave Birmingham at 10.03 (or 11.03 or 12.03) the cost is £60.20 and a return on most trains the same again so given you don't qualify for a railcard and can't be bothered to look for split ticketing then provided you book in advance you don't have to pay £124 unless you insist on a rush hour service. BTW a split ticket doesn't "shave" the cost. It reduces it from £60.20 to £38.64 which in my world is around 34% so I'm back to my original point that you only pay high fares if you can't be bothered to do the research. And if fares are lower who is paying for the difference? The taxpayer?

sand_hun

Here's a screenshot showing the prices, some of these aren't even at "rush hour" yet they are still priced at £122.

But for arguments sake, let's say you were flexible on times and found one for £60. Once you factor in the cost of a return, it's still not worth it. That journey could be done in a car for a fraction of the cost.

Why should you have to bother with hacks like split ticketing which often requires moving from carriage to carriage throughout the journey. Why not just price the tickets fairly to begin with?

giraffe69

You are not compelled to do so but many take the opportunity to lower the cost of a journey.

 I use the train for a 2 hour journey to London. I seek to plan in advance which reduces the cost and I stick to a specific named train which reduces the cost further and fortunately I do qualify for a rail card. I actually think my fare is quite cheap.

 I agree £122 for a single is relatively expensive for this journey but you don't need to pay that (why would you catch the 13.03 for £122 when the 12.03 is £60.20?) and I repeat that if you lower the cost someone else has to pay. Who do you think it should be? You need to take some care and perhaps make a modicum of effort to check as, for example, you also need to do with air fares. 

Herzlos

giraffe69 said:

 I agree £122 for a single is relatively expensive for this journey but you don't need to pay that (why would you catch the 13.03 for £122 when the 12.03 is £60.20?)

But why would the same train, an hour later (still off peak) cost twice as much? If they can afford to run it for £60 then why the £122?

I get the booking in advance thing as well, but I wonder how busy trains would be if they were reasonably priced always. Is it better to sell 1 ticket for £122 or 3 tickets for £60?
How many people are put off from travelling at shortish notice by the cost and then don't go any spend money at the destination.

Brie

There is a bus stop outside our house and I could hop on there and be dropped at the bus station across from where I work.  Think the cost would be £4.50 a day.  Cheaper if I got a monthly ticket.

But.  

The first bus of the day is at 10 am and the last return is arrives home at 4.  The trip itself takes up to 90 minutes.  So that would give me about 3 hours in the office instead of the full 7.  

So 4 years back I bought a second hand car for £7k and have to pay all the things that go with that, petrol, MOT, insurance etc.  The journey by car takes me about 20 minutes so I'm saving myself over an hour each way.  There are other variations on bus journeys I could take that would allow me longer in the office and would include a pleasant walk to and from a more distant bus stop but the journey time and price would remain the same so I'm happy to pay for saving myself 2 hours of doing nothing 5 days a week.