[rant] single journey fares are like a rip off that I start to think about getting a car

coffeehound

MalMonroe said:

coffeehound said:

Yes agreed single fares are over-priced.  I work nights so can only use a day return when working consecutive nights and have to get singles on the other days.  The only positive is that on the late trains, the guard doesn't always check tickets

But on the late trains you don't know whether or not the guard is coming to check so you'd need a ticket. Right? Sorry but that kind of 'trick' is beneath me. 

At my local station there's no ticket machine, so one has to purchase from the guard -- if s/he passes through the carriage

jon81uk

miklcct said:

I currently use a bus monthly ticket at £61 per month, but in effect I normally spend about £80 per month in local travel, because there is no monthly integrated ticket which is valid across all modes of public transport in my place. There are two competing bus companies and a train line with 7 stations on it, and I only use one of them frequent enough to warrant a season ticket. However, as there are differences in the area served by the bus companies, I still need to use the service of another bus company for about 2 times per week, where a single is £3.8, a return is £4.3, and a day ticket is £4.1 (cheaper than a return). Also, I need to use the train for a few times per month, mostly for shopping (as a retail park is next to the train station one stop away), and thanks to the fare reform of SWR introducing the "evening out" fare, I now pay £1.95 for a return instead of £2.5 in the past with a railcard.

This is why more cities need London (TfL) style integrated transport. When in London I didn't need to know who was the bus operator as TfL handled the fares, I just knew it was £1.50 and if I do multiple journeys the system works it out to the buss pass or travelcard as appropriate. Having two "competing" bus companies makes no difference when they serve different areas and you need to use both of them.

miklcct

jon81uk said:

miklcct said:

I currently use a bus monthly ticket at £61 per month, but in effect I normally spend about £80 per month in local travel, because there is no monthly integrated ticket which is valid across all modes of public transport in my place. There are two competing bus companies and a train line with 7 stations on it, and I only use one of them frequent enough to warrant a season ticket. However, as there are differences in the area served by the bus companies, I still need to use the service of another bus company for about 2 times per week, where a single is £3.8, a return is £4.3, and a day ticket is £4.1 (cheaper than a return). Also, I need to use the train for a few times per month, mostly for shopping (as a retail park is next to the train station one stop away), and thanks to the fare reform of SWR introducing the "evening out" fare, I now pay £1.95 for a return instead of £2.5 in the past with a railcard.

This is why more cities need London (TfL) style integrated transport. When in London I didn't need to know who was the bus operator as TfL handled the fares, I just knew it was £1.50 and if I do multiple journeys the system works it out to the buss pass or travelcard as appropriate. Having two "competing" bus companies makes no difference when they serve different areas and you need to use both of them.

My problem now is that, the route I want is operated by two companies. One does not operate long enough into the the evening as the commercial service only works in daytime and the evening departures were subsidised.

Another bus company runs the route on a half hourly interval into the evening, but since this month the departure I take most of the days has failed to show up for about half of the times.

jon81uk

miklcct said:

jon81uk said:

miklcct said:

I currently use a bus monthly ticket at £61 per month, but in effect I normally spend about £80 per month in local travel, because there is no monthly integrated ticket which is valid across all modes of public transport in my place. There are two competing bus companies and a train line with 7 stations on it, and I only use one of them frequent enough to warrant a season ticket. However, as there are differences in the area served by the bus companies, I still need to use the service of another bus company for about 2 times per week, where a single is £3.8, a return is £4.3, and a day ticket is £4.1 (cheaper than a return). Also, I need to use the train for a few times per month, mostly for shopping (as a retail park is next to the train station one stop away), and thanks to the fare reform of SWR introducing the "evening out" fare, I now pay £1.95 for a return instead of £2.5 in the past with a railcard.

This is why more cities need London (TfL) style integrated transport. When in London I didn't need to know who was the bus operator as TfL handled the fares, I just knew it was £1.50 and if I do multiple journeys the system works it out to the buss pass or travelcard as appropriate. Having two "competing" bus companies makes no difference when they serve different areas and you need to use both of them.

My problem now is that, the route I want is operated by two companies. One does not operate long enough into the the evening as the commercial service only works in daytime and the evening departures were subsidised.

Another bus company runs the route on a half hourly interval into the evening, but since this month the departure I take most of the days has failed to show up for about half of the times.

Again more reasons why having the services managed by the local authority would make more sense, as I said in London, TfL decide what buses run and when so makes no difference who the operator is.

I think your situation is very frustrating but many councils and goverment think private operators and "competition" is a good thing.

Herzlos

If you're spending about £120/month on public transport, then you're likely nowhere near the point where a car would be cheaper. If you are a new driver, then the insurance alone could be more than that. Car prices are crazily high at the moment too, so you'd likely be paying much more than £1200 for a car, too.

A car could be a lot more convenient, but it won't save you any money.

nyermen

I've always wondered about the push from fossil to electric, rather than to public transport. If you're in london, the underground/buses seem a no brainer, but try some places I've experienced, it makes no sense.  

Eg. Guildford, when I lived there, two bus companies ran many of the same routes (no, tickets weren't valid on both), meaning that there was one bus valid for my season ticket every two hours to where I lived rather than one an hour.  And thats assuming they weren't delayed or cancelled (they were regularly). I tried many different ways to get to work, in the end I just drove.

eg. Farnborough, when I need to get to the office in paddington, the options are into waterloo and then across the tube network (about 2 hours each way from where I live).  £129.40 a week with tube that is.  Or I go from farnborough north via reading (£121.80 as no tube needed). About 1hr 45 with the extra walking.
The problem is if I'm not in for a full week. Return paddington via reading is a whopping £55 a day if you cant accept very restricted hours/advance tickets.  Thats without any use of the tube.  Mean time I can drive for about £15 (albeit its not fun in the evening with traffic).

elsien

Have you factored parking charges and full maintenance costs into your calculations?

I rarely use public transport. Buses either don't go to places that I do, or they stop during the evenings and on Sundays. Our local bus service is dreadful but it's also uneconomic so no other company will bid for it. Trains involve a single line 45 minute trip to the nearest city to change to get anywhere I want to go. And doing anything spur of the moment is out because of the need to plan ahead to get the cheap advance fares. 
And if I tried to get to work on public transport, by the time I got there it would be time to come home again.
Running a car for me is necessary, but it doesn't come cheap. 
The other option might be a scooter if you're doing shorter journeys? 

TELLIT01

Purchasing a car in preference to using public transport needs to be viewed as the long term comparative cost.  If the OP has had a car for a while, insurance costs are going to be high - quite possibly that alone will be more than the cost of public transport.  Tax, fuel, MOT, repairs and maintenance all add to the package of costs.  Then there are parking charges, possibly Congestion Fees depending on where they live.  With public transport you only pay for it when you use it, but your own vehicle has constant costs.

By the way, I'm not a public transport advocate.  I've had a free bus pass for over 4 years and used it 3 times.  Driving has the great advantage of convenience.  Before I retired, it would have taken me about 45 minutes to get to work by bus.  Driving took about 10 minutes.

gingercordial

Echoing those who say your public transport costs are still likely to be far cheaper than a car.

We own one small car, about 15 years old, bought outright.  It is mainly used for my husband's commute, 7 miles each way so in total about an hour of city driving per day (shift work including nights so public transport is less suitable for him) plus the occasional run to a retail park if we need something quickly.  He is over 40 with a clean licence so insurance rates are low.  We have to budget per month:

£80 petrol - just for the commute, more if we decide to go somewhere at the weekend
£30 tax
£20 car insurance - towards annual renewal of just over £200
£75 repairs - as it is an older car there is always something significant at the MOT, so we've found this to be sensible
£13 breakdown cover - with a packaged bank account so some of this is for travel/phone insurance as a bundle, but again with an older car you don't want to be stranded on the motorway

That comes to £218 per month just to run an old banger to and from work by an experienced, careful driver.  Also we have a drive and he has free parking at work so no costs for us there, but you might.

It doesn't even cover the separate funds needed to be put aside for eventual replacement - our last 20 year old car had a catastrophic engine failure during the first lockdown in April 2020 so we had to scramble to find something else to buy within walking distance and luckily we had enough emergency cash for that.

I do agree your situation with multiple bus companies sounds annoying.

MalMonroe

coffeehound said:

MalMonroe said:

coffeehound said:

Yes agreed single fares are over-priced.  I work nights so can only use a day return when working consecutive nights and have to get singles on the other days.  The only positive is that on the late trains, the guard doesn't always check tickets

But on the late trains you don't know whether or not the guard is coming to check so you'd need a ticket. Right? Sorry but that kind of 'trick' is beneath me. 

At my local station there's no ticket machine, so one has to purchase from the guard -- if s/he passes through the carriage

In that case, why would you put a blush emoji on your comment? You made it sound like you were guilty of fare evasion when you weren't. ('the guard doesn't always check tickets'). What you meant to say was that if the guard doesn't come, you can't even buy a ticket. In which case, you obviously can't do anything about it. No need to 'blush' as you aren't even being naughty. And that is very disappointing, must try harder next time.