Energy news in general

LADYXXMACBETH

savers_united said:

Zandoni said:

Mstty said:

I think we all need to go through some hardship with energy prices, otherwise no one would ever reduce their consumption if they are compensated for immediately.

I personally think we need a harsh winter and higher bills to make us aware of the cost of energy and then some measures could come in for those just above the poverty line.

However those below the poverty line and unable to have heat and food they do need something in place for October. We will be looking out for our neighbours to spot those in trouble.

We are looking at everything so we still have "fun" money but have cut back a great deal already with more savings to be made.

My last quip "Thank goodness for global warming, imagine cold winters like the 70's and 80's" (tongue in cheek comment) 

Everybody talks about people on benefits etc. it’s the young families with big mortgages or high rents that I feel sorry for. They earn just enough to keep away from the benefit line and they end up not being able to pay their bills.

Totally agree with you, I know a few like that who have worked for as long as I have known them, a kid or 2, never claimed anything (as far as I know), have high child care costs, normally more than 1 car as both parents need to work and even though working are not exactly well off, probably getting by each month with some money being tucked away for a summer holiday and some work on their homes. 

They are going to find the increase in childcare, food, energy and fuel really hard, but will then be asked to contribute more to help those who are deemed fuel poor. These are not well off people, many will not be far off that poverty line themselves, when you add their income v their outgoings that are increasing rapidly it would not take much. You would basically be asking these people to either work extra hours to fund others or cut back themselves.

This is different as these increases we are seeing are effecting everyone, from my spreadsheets I predict as a family we will be £4-£5k worse off than last year when all rises are accounted for, £1500 on energy alone. 

Really? There's people who think they're poor and then there's absolute poverty. I understand the energy price will make some poorer, but for those of us that last year had to decide whether we could afford to eat or heat this year will be worse. 
We were already struggling and now we have no money to pay for energy.
Something has to be done. 
I know it's annoying when people see others on benefits getting 'free' this and 'free' that, but for the majority of people on benefits it's a pittance and just enough to survive on. 
Everyone needs help, but some need more help than others. 

Zandoni

LADYXXMACBETH said:

savers_united said:

Zandoni said:

Mstty said:

I think we all need to go through some hardship with energy prices, otherwise no one would ever reduce their consumption if they are compensated for immediately.

I personally think we need a harsh winter and higher bills to make us aware of the cost of energy and then some measures could come in for those just above the poverty line.

However those below the poverty line and unable to have heat and food they do need something in place for October. We will be looking out for our neighbours to spot those in trouble.

We are looking at everything so we still have "fun" money but have cut back a great deal already with more savings to be made.

My last quip "Thank goodness for global warming, imagine cold winters like the 70's and 80's" (tongue in cheek comment) 

Everybody talks about people on benefits etc. it’s the young families with big mortgages or high rents that I feel sorry for. They earn just enough to keep away from the benefit line and they end up not being able to pay their bills.

Totally agree with you, I know a few like that who have worked for as long as I have known them, a kid or 2, never claimed anything (as far as I know), have high child care costs, normally more than 1 car as both parents need to work and even though working are not exactly well off, probably getting by each month with some money being tucked away for a summer holiday and some work on their homes. 

They are going to find the increase in childcare, food, energy and fuel really hard, but will then be asked to contribute more to help those who are deemed fuel poor. These are not well off people, many will not be far off that poverty line themselves, when you add their income v their outgoings that are increasing rapidly it would not take much. You would basically be asking these people to either work extra hours to fund others or cut back themselves.

This is different as these increases we are seeing are effecting everyone, from my spreadsheets I predict as a family we will be £4-£5k worse off than last year when all rises are accounted for, £1500 on energy alone. 

Really? There's people who think they're poor and then there's absolute poverty. I understand the energy price will make some poorer, but for those of us that last year had to decide whether we could afford to eat or heat this year will be worse. 
We were already struggling and now we have no money to pay for energy.
Something has to be done. 
I know it's annoying when people see others on benefits getting 'free' this and 'free' that, but for the majority of people on benefits it's a pittance and just enough to survive on. 
Everyone needs help, but some need more help than others. 

There are so many families where both parents work and after paying mortgage etc. they are as poor as people who are living on benefits. It’s not just about what you have, it’s what you have to actually live on. They earn just enough to not get any help but not enough to live on.

gefnew

Down size and live within your means, it is not rocket science.do not forget the years before when we had other crisis.

Zandoni

gefnew said:

Down size and live within your means, it is not rocket science.do not forget the years before when we had other crisis.

Many people are already in the smallest house possible, that is also not rocket science.

Mstty

Zandoni said:

Mstty said:

I think we all need to go through some hardship with energy prices, otherwise no one would ever reduce their consumption if they are compensated for immediately.

I personally think we need a harsh winter and higher bills to make us aware of the cost of energy and then some measures could come in for those just above the poverty line.

However those below the poverty line and unable to have heat and food they do need something in place for October. We will be looking out for our neighbours to spot those in trouble.

We are looking at everything so we still have "fun" money but have cut back a great deal already with more savings to be made.

My last quip "Thank goodness for global warming, imagine cold winters like the 70's and 80's" (tongue in cheek comment) 

Everybody talks about people on benefits etc. it’s the young families with big mortgages or high rents that I feel sorry for. They earn just enough to keep away from the benefit line and they end up not being able to pay their bills.

Indeed that's why I omitted the B word.

Come October many just above the benefits line will.find themselves having to make very tough decisions.

savers_united

LADYXXMACBETH said:

savers_united said:

Zandoni said:

Mstty said:

I think we all need to go through some hardship with energy prices, otherwise no one would ever reduce their consumption if they are compensated for immediately.

I personally think we need a harsh winter and higher bills to make us aware of the cost of energy and then some measures could come in for those just above the poverty line.

However those below the poverty line and unable to have heat and food they do need something in place for October. We will be looking out for our neighbours to spot those in trouble.

We are looking at everything so we still have "fun" money but have cut back a great deal already with more savings to be made.

My last quip "Thank goodness for global warming, imagine cold winters like the 70's and 80's" (tongue in cheek comment) 

Everybody talks about people on benefits etc. it’s the young families with big mortgages or high rents that I feel sorry for. They earn just enough to keep away from the benefit line and they end up not being able to pay their bills.

Totally agree with you, I know a few like that who have worked for as long as I have known them, a kid or 2, never claimed anything (as far as I know), have high child care costs, normally more than 1 car as both parents need to work and even though working are not exactly well off, probably getting by each month with some money being tucked away for a summer holiday and some work on their homes. 

They are going to find the increase in childcare, food, energy and fuel really hard, but will then be asked to contribute more to help those who are deemed fuel poor. These are not well off people, many will not be far off that poverty line themselves, when you add their income v their outgoings that are increasing rapidly it would not take much. You would basically be asking these people to either work extra hours to fund others or cut back themselves.

This is different as these increases we are seeing are effecting everyone, from my spreadsheets I predict as a family we will be £4-£5k worse off than last year when all rises are accounted for, £1500 on energy alone. 

Really? There's people who think they're poor and then there's absolute poverty. I understand the energy price will make some poorer, but for those of us that last year had to decide whether we could afford to eat or heat this year will be worse. 
We were already struggling and now we have no money to pay for energy.
Something has to be done. 
I know it's annoying when people see others on benefits getting 'free' this and 'free' that, but for the majority of people on benefits it's a pittance and just enough to survive on. 
Everyone needs help, but some need more help than others. 

I get that and my comment was not aimed at that group, it was more about the comments by energy bosses yesterday that 40% will be facing fuel poverty by October and that one of the answers is for the other 60% to pay more to support.
I don't believe that the most of that 40% will be in a much worse position than a large section of the other 60%, the difficult thing to gauge is income and expenditure, you work you tend to need at least 1 possibly 2 cars, or an annual rail ticket. Then you need child care if you have children whilst at work, These are often expenses that someone not working or maybe only working a few hours a week / part time may not need, but you will unlikely get any support with council tax, tax credits, combined with the extra expenses above it can add a few thousand. A mortgage on top and an extra £100 a month to the energy bill, and £50 a month extra to fuel the car and you can see how many more could quickly be pulled into financial difficulty without having extra levies on top for a social fund. 

merchcon55

brewerdave said:

What I found particularly chilling yesterday from the various Industry supremos spouting forth ,was the suggestion that those in fuel poverty should be subsidised by other customers ! End game ? We will all end up in fuel poverty !!

https://www.current-news.co.uk/news/energy-crisis-beyond-what-this-industry-can-deal-with-as-suppliers-push-for-greater-government-intervention

Note in the article it mentions that the directors of Bulb and Avro were at the meeting.

StartledJesus

@merchcon55 Indeed they were. Some bad publicity for the head of Bulb, but Avro seemed to escape.
https://www.energylivenews.com/2022/04/21/avro-energy-bosses-were-paid-250k-a-month/ 

Northern_Wanderer

The energy companies could easily make the cost of energy on a pre-payment meter the same as a standard meter? That would help. Surely the costs invoved in the different meters are not that different?

For me it's about priorites. If it's important for someone to be warm and eat, then they might have to cut back on luxuries such as beauty treatments or Costa's or general consumption.

If a person stays in a property, doesn't take ingoing meter readings, pays £30 once in the three months they lived there, vacates property, gives meter readings (as I badgered them to) then gets a bill for £300 and starts complaining it's too much and they can't afford to pay. Makes a payment plan after leaving. Also hasn't paid any council tax in that time, has to make a payment plan. Then complains that new property has a pre-payment meter but also doesn't take meter readings on standard meter. This person is often having lunch in a cafe, buying new stuff. Basically just ignoring bills for three months and creates some more debt that has to be repaid on top of low earnings and everyday expenses.

I personally don't see why I should pay extra for this type of scenario just because I can budget properly. I understand that energy costs are rediculous now but feel there are some people that should be on a pre-payment meter and perhaps have some budgeting skills classes or something.

But, if monthly billing was a requirement, budget or variable, it might help people keep on track better than quarterly or 6 monthly billing. The industry needs to change.

Mstty

brewerdave said:

tghe-retford said:savers_united said:

LADYXXMACBETH said:

I agree the 'hardworking families' shouldn't pay, but theyll pay anyway in their taxes if the government step in. 
Ultimately when people can't pay the customer will end up footing the bill anyway. People with nothing have no way of paying back debts, they have no assets so it can't be clawed back and putting in a prepayment meter won't help as many won't put any money on the meter. 
It's also slightly offensive to have people say that for some reason benefits claimants can't spend their money on what they like. If someone wants to get their nails done then that's their choice. I don't go around saying what a police officer can do with their wages because it's tax payers money that pays their wages. 

Via taxation is a fairer route rather than just hit those who are deemed to be ok, also that way those who earn more would pay more in theory.

I agree that no one should be told how they spend their money, benefits or no benefits, but if you do decide what little you have to spend it on nails etc, then there must be consequences to that decision if it means you do not have enough for the energy meter, it is all about priorities, you cannot expect everyone else to bail you out, If i did not pay the mortgage but instead took an extra few holidays each year the house would be taken from me. I know that so I keep up the repayments even if it means sacrificing other things. 

At least taxation has the ability to pay concept within, a social tariff has a harsh cut off whereby those on pensions and benefits will get help but anyone just above the cut off in a low paid job will get nothing other than a hike in their prices should the energy companies get their way and the cap is abolished.

Absolutely - the Government have already made an unfair decision with the £150 C/Tax rebate - eg 2 pensioners on fixed incomes in a band E+ house get nothing but 2 professionals ,both working ,in a band D property ,get a bung !!

However conversely a band E+ home is generally "substantial" and they have the option to downsize to fit their means.

I would have personally stopped it at Band C.