Energy news in general

spot1034

I think the point Robert Peston makes will be the clincher. If they let a massive price hike go ahead and just try to target help at the poorest, then that leaves the headline price to rise and be taken into account when inflation is calculated, leading to a huge knock-on effect when the next rise in benefits and pensions is calculated. Quite apart from the fact that this is such a massive hit to so many people that most of them would be outside the scope of any targeted support, and don't forget that there are elections in May.

I suspect what we will see is some sort of extended loan to the industry, aimed at limiting short term rises which would mean a much longer period for clawing back the losses of the past few months. Perhaps combined with the cancellation of levies and VAT - whatever they are saying about all this at the moment, that does not mean a thing. But I suspect the point about higher inflation costing the government many billions within a year as it's passed on in higher benefits, public sector pay and pensions is the one which will be taken most seriously when the full effect is realised.

wild666

spot1034 said:

I think the point Robert Peston makes will be the clincher. If they let a massive price hike go ahead and just try to target help at the poorest, then that leaves the headline price to rise and be taken into account when inflation is calculated, leading to a huge knock-on effect when the next rise in benefits and pensions is calculated. Quite apart from the fact that this is such a massive hit to so many people that most of them would be outside the scope of any targeted support, and don't forget that there are elections in May.

I suspect what we will see is some sort of extended loan to the industry, aimed at limiting short term rises which would mean a much longer period for clawing back the losses of the past few months. Perhaps combined with the cancellation of levies and VAT - whatever they are saying about all this at the moment, that does not mean a thing. But I suspect the point about higher inflation costing the government many billions within a year as it's passed on in higher benefits, public sector pay and pensions is the one which will be taken most seriously when the full effect is realised.

As I have said in other forums that if the headline prices go up drastically then the government will do all it can to see that the inflation rate is as low as possible when it comes time to give pension and benefit increases. 
If the price cap on electric and gas went to £2000 plus then that would mean benefits had to increase substantially and we could see inflation at 10% plus but the benefits only increasing by a fraction of that as the government use any method available to lower the inflation rate.

Some failed companies are producing exaggerated bills which are agreed by a third party and the SoLR, if they did that to me I would be paying the standing charge only for years if they said my last bill was in the £1000 to £2000 bracket. Luckily my final bill was for just 4 days use and only 23 kWh of electric and just the standing charge for gas.

QrizB

spot1034 said:

I think the point Robert Peston makes will be the clincher. If they let a massive price hike go ahead and just try to target help at the poorest, then that leaves the headline price to rise and be taken into account when inflation is calculated, leading to a huge knock-on effect when the next rise in benefits and pensions is calculated.

Domestic energy is 27 parts per thousand - 2.7% - of CPI. Energy prices rising by 50% would directly cause a 1.35% contribution to CPI.

The annual pensions budget is about £170Bn. The rest of the welfare budget is about £140Bn. An additional 1.35% rise in pensions and welfare would cost £4Bn, much less than the £20Bn that has been discussed as the additional cost to consumers of the increase.

Gerry1

Don't forget that high energy prices will also cause the prices of many of the goods and services in the CPI basket to rocket, so it won't just get lost in the noise.

Sea_Shell

Gerry1 said:

Don't forget that high energy prices will also cause the prices of many of the goods and services in the CPI basket to rocket, so it won't just get lost in the noise.

Agree.  High energy prices will effect everything!!   From goods to services, as it filters down to customers.

spot1034

QrizB said:

spot1034 said:

I think the point Robert Peston makes will be the clincher. If they let a massive price hike go ahead and just try to target help at the poorest, then that leaves the headline price to rise and be taken into account when inflation is calculated, leading to a huge knock-on effect when the next rise in benefits and pensions is calculated.

Domestic energy is 27 parts per thousand - 2.7% - of CPI. Energy prices rising by 50% would directly cause a 1.35% contribution to CPI.

The annual pensions budget is about £170Bn. The rest of the welfare budget is about £140Bn. An additional 1.35% rise in pensions and welfare would cost £4Bn, much less than the £20Bn that has been discussed as the additional cost to consumers of the increase.

It'll be cumulative though. Once it's there it'll form a higher base on which next year's inflation is calculated, and each year afterwards. 

QrizB

spot1034 said:

QrizB said:

spot1034 said:

I think the point Robert Peston makes will be the clincher. If they let a massive price hike go ahead and just try to target help at the poorest, then that leaves the headline price to rise and be taken into account when inflation is calculated, leading to a huge knock-on effect when the next rise in benefits and pensions is calculated.

Domestic energy is 27 parts per thousand - 2.7% - of CPI. Energy prices rising by 50% would directly cause a 1.35% contribution to CPI.

The annual pensions budget is about £170Bn. The rest of the welfare budget is about £140Bn. An additional 1.35% rise in pensions and welfare would cost £4Bn, much less than the £20Bn that has been discussed as the additional cost to consumers of the increase.

It'll be cumulative though. Once it's there it'll form a higher base on which next year's inflation is calculated, and each year afterwards. 

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, sorry.

If prices all rise 100% this year, inflation is 100%. If they then rise 0% next year, inflation is 0%. If they fall back to the original level, inflation is -50%.

Or are you saying that once pensions & benefits rise, they've risen for ever? That's true but we've seen this year that the Gov't can get quite creative with the Triple Lock.

spot1034

QrizB said:

spot1034 said:

QrizB said:

spot1034 said:

I think the point Robert Peston makes will be the clincher. If they let a massive price hike go ahead and just try to target help at the poorest, then that leaves the headline price to rise and be taken into account when inflation is calculated, leading to a huge knock-on effect when the next rise in benefits and pensions is calculated.

Domestic energy is 27 parts per thousand - 2.7% - of CPI. Energy prices rising by 50% would directly cause a 1.35% contribution to CPI.

The annual pensions budget is about £170Bn. The rest of the welfare budget is about £140Bn. An additional 1.35% rise in pensions and welfare would cost £4Bn, much less than the £20Bn that has been discussed as the additional cost to consumers of the increase.

It'll be cumulative though. Once it's there it'll form a higher base on which next year's inflation is calculated, and each year afterwards. 

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, sorry.

If prices all rise 100% this year, inflation is 100%. If they then rise 0% next year, inflation is 0%. If they fall back to the original level, inflation is -50%.

Or are you saying that once pensions & benefits rise, they've risen for ever? That's true but we've seen this year that the Gov't can get quite creative with the Triple Lock.

Yes sorry what I meant was that benefits don't generally get reduced. Once the £4 billion is added it then forms a new higher base on which next year's increase would be calculated, and so on ad infinitum. It's not just £4 billion as a one-off. It's that extra sum plus inflation every year .

BUFF

Hunterston B's last operating reactor comes offline today, Friday 7/01/22, for good. That's baseline power that will need to be replaced ...

DiseasedBunny

BUFF said:

Hunterston B's last operating reactor comes offline today, Friday 7/01/22, for good. That's baseline power that will need to be replaced ...

Nah, doesn’t need it, all that wind and solar we can live off 🤣