Energy news in general

Scot_39

Now is that a real 25% or is it "25% less than it would have been otherwise" cost saving ?

I suspect we can expect more of the same as we saw last April

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-02/Default Tariff Cap Letter - 1 April 2024 .pdf

See the bit on policy costs increasing by £31 (20%) - and the renewables obligation component up £11 - inflation + additional relief for EII - 85% exemption to 100% exemption.

Lets see where these cuts get balanced.

Hopefully talking small numbers when divide savings for 7000 by c30-31 m homes and smaller businesses - but the pennies and pounds just seem to keep adding up and adding up on our bills.

Like the £1 for nuclear, the £1 for WFD per month. 

And suddenly your at the situation were policy costs - already £198 - are non trivial share of our bills.

And when wholesale prices much cheaper last July - the £188 policy costs + VAT represented 16.7% - £1 in every £6 of the DF DD Cap.

Ildhund

Scot_39 said:
... the £1 for WFD per month. 

Did you mean WHD - Warm Home Discount? If so, where does the £1 per month come from? I once worked out that 2.7m new recipients of £150 each would cost  ~£400 million. Apportioned between 23 m domestic customers (including the 2.7 m) makes it close to £18 per customer, or £1.50 per month. The difference could be your 7-8 m small businesses, assuming they have to chip in also. The true discount could amount to only £150 - £18 = £132 ... the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away from those who got £150 last winter.

Chrysalis

These allowances keep on going up, what is the "Levelisation allowance"?

HillStreetBlues

Ildhund said:

Scot_39 said:
... the £1 for WFD per month. 

Did you mean WHD - Warm Home Discount? If so, where does the £1 per month come from? I once worked out that 2.7m new recipients of £150 each would cost  ~£400 million. Apportioned between 23 m domestic customers (including the 2.7 m) makes it close to £18 per customer, or £1.50 per month. The difference could be your 7-8 m small businesses, assuming they have to chip in also. The true discount could amount to only £150 - £18 = £132 ... the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away from those who got £150 last winter.

I thought there were about 27-28 m domestic customers.

The_Green_Hornet

Chrysalis said:

These allowances keep on going up, what is the "Levelisation allowance"?

The "Levelisation" allowance was to make sure prepayment and Direct Debit customers pay the same standing charge

Energy price cap | Ofgem

MattMattMattUK

HillStreetBlues said:

Ildhund said:

Scot_39 said:
... the £1 for WFD per month. 

Did you mean WHD - Warm Home Discount? If so, where does the £1 per month come from? I once worked out that 2.7m new recipients of £150 each would cost  ~£400 million. Apportioned between 23 m domestic customers (including the 2.7 m) makes it close to £18 per customer, or £1.50 per month. The difference could be your 7-8 m small businesses, assuming they have to chip in also. The true discount could amount to only £150 - £18 = £132 ... the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away from those who got £150 last winter.

I thought there were about 27-28 m domestic customers.

28 million domestic electricity supplies
23 million domestic gas supplies

Those figures exclude domestic customers on business tariffs and those who are rebilled from a single main supply.

superkoopauk

The_Green_Hornet said:

Chrysalis said:

These allowances keep on going up, what is the "Levelisation allowance"?

The "Levelisation" allowance was to make sure prepayment and Direct Debit customers pay the same standing charge

Energy price cap | Ofgem

Which is daft really when PPM customers already benefit from lower unit rates

Scot_39

Ildhund said:

Scot_39 said:
... the £1 for WFD per month. 

Did you mean WHD - Warm Home Discount? If so, where does the £1 per month come from? I once worked out that 2.7m new recipients of £150 each would cost  ~£400 million. Apportioned between 23 m domestic customers (including the 2.7 m) makes it close to £18 per customer, or £1.50 per month. The difference could be your 7-8 m small businesses, assuming they have to chip in also. The true discount could amount to only £150 - £18 = £132 ... the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away from those who got £150 last winter.

Yes sorry WHD - and it was from another forumite who said he didnt mind the £1 a month.

The BBC article  I read wasn't very forthcoming about the cost for the rest of us.

And I always though the breakdown was more like 29m homes and 1.5-2.5 million small businesses - as read other sites estimating between 30.5 and 31.5 m total low level voltage connections .

Ildhund

Scot_39 said:
I always though the breakdown was more like 29m homes and 1.5-2.5 million small businesses 

I wonder who has the most accurate figures. I would usually expect ONS to be authoritative, but they've been discredited a bit recently. I'll sniff around ...

OK, I admit defeat. There are a few variously well-informed guesses around, but nowhere could I find a definitive figure for the number of domestic electricity customers in GB - over to those with more powerful hunt-fu. The closest I came was this Ofgem table (modified for clarity):

 

Electricity customers ('000)
British Gas	4,967
E.ON	4,324
EDF Energy	2,732
Octopus Energy	6,800
OVO Energy	3,042
Scottish Power	1,976
So Energy	304
Utility Warehouse	855
	24,999

Other suppliers have fewer than 1% each of the total, but it's anyone's guess how many customers they have in aggregate. The figures given exclude prepayment customers, which are variously estimated to comprise 10-12% of the total number of customers. So we come down to

25 million + 10% (others) = 27.5 million + 13% PPM =  31 million. That seems to tally with your 30.5 < n < 31.5 million report. In which case, the extra WHD element of the standing charge amounts to £400 million / 31 million =  £13 per customer, a wee bit over £1 a month. 

MattMattMattUK

Ildhund said:

Scot_39 said:
I always though the breakdown was more like 29m homes and 1.5-2.5 million small businesses 

I wonder who has the most accurate figures. I would usually expect ONS to be authoritative, but they've been discredited a bit recently. I'll sniff around ...

OK, I admit defeat. There are a few variously well-informed guesses around, but nowhere could I find a definitive figure for the number of domestic electricity customers in GB - over to those with more powerful hunt-fu. The closest I came was this Ofgem table (modified for clarity):

Electricity customers ('000)
British Gas	4,967
E.ON	4,324
EDF Energy	2,732
Octopus Energy	6,800
OVO Energy	3,042
Scottish Power	1,976
So Energy	304
Utility Warehouse	855
	24,999

Other suppliers have fewer than 1% each of the total, but it's anyone's guess how many customers they have in aggregate. The figures given exclude prepayment customers, which are variously estimated to comprise 10-12% of the total number of customers. So we come down to

25 million + 10% (others) = 27.5 million + 13% PPM =  31 million. That seems to tally with your 30.5 < n < 31.5 million report. In which case, the extra WHD element of the standing charge amounts to £400 million / 31 million =  £13 per customer, a wee bit over £1 a month. 

According to Jan 2025 data Octopus have 7.3 million customers across 12.9 million meters with that 7.3 million customers being 23.7% of the UK market. That would indicate that the total is 30.8 million. 

https://octopus.energy/press/octopus-skyrockets-to-the-uks-largest-energy-supplier-serving-1-in-4-households/
https://www.cornwall-insight.com/press-and-media/press-release/octopus-energy-becomes-gbs-largest-household-supplier/