Energy news in general

littleteapot

Coffeekup said:

agentcain .

What do you expect customers do? Do you think people enjoy keeping the heat in winter or the AC on in summer with windows open? How exactly are we wasting energy and we need a shock? There's not much left to reduce. 

I disagree there's plenty of posts on this forum where people can't figure out why their energy usage is so high or where it's going.There is also people that can afford the price rises and don't see a need to change their habits.

Agreed, there's a lot of people who can afford it but just like complaining rather than reflecting on their usage and where savings can be made. E.g. those who state their whole family *must* have 30 minute long hot showers every day, or retired people who insist on remaining in a poorly insulted 5 bedroom house even though a 2 bedroom house would be more appropriate for them.

There are others who can't afford it but have difficulty understanding, or not willing to understand why it costs them so much and change.

Then the ones who can't afford it despite understanding the problem and managing their consumption as well as possible.

And finally those who understand the problem and manage to keep their consumption within their budget.

My observation on these forums is the latter two seem to be the minority...

StartledJesus

@littleteapot You seem to have omitted to mention those smug, self-satisfied people who seem to think they are better than everyone else, and comment from a position that is probably more down to good luck than good judgement. What is the average energy consumption in an ivory tower? 🤔😉 

Mstty

littleteapot said:

Coffeekup said:

agentcain .

What do you expect customers do? Do you think people enjoy keeping the heat in winter or the AC on in summer with windows open? How exactly are we wasting energy and we need a shock? There's not much left to reduce. 

I disagree there's plenty of posts on this forum where people can't figure out why their energy usage is so high or where it's going.There is also people that can afford the price rises and don't see a need to change their habits.

Agreed, there's a lot of people who can afford it but just like complaining rather than reflecting on their usage and where savings can be made. E.g. those who state their whole family *must* have 30 minute long hot showers every day, or retired people who insist on remaining in a poorly insulted 5 bedroom house even though a 2 bedroom house would be more appropriate for them.

There are others who can't afford it but have difficulty understanding, or not willing to understand why it costs them so much and change.

Then the ones who can't afford it despite understanding the problem and managing their consumption as well as possible.

And finally those who understand the problem and manage to keep their consumption within their budget.

My observation on these forums is the latter two seem to be the minority...

I once, maybe twice put on a thread about an elderly couple not being able to afford energy and the cost of living.

I mentioned the word downsize to a more energy efficient property from their E and F property were the two in question. I listed the benefits and reduction in Council Tax, bills across the board and insurance.

Well it was like I was writing on the forum for them to put down their pets. Not from then or their siblings but other forum members.

Why should they have to move to pay energy bills.

I can see financially savvy people downsizing if this is possible. Especially if the downsize finds them with a property much better on an EPC and with Solar...The dream would be a battery system as well. 

lisyloo

Mstty said:

littleteapot said:

Coffeekup said:

agentcain .

What do you expect customers do? Do you think people enjoy keeping the heat in winter or the AC on in summer with windows open? How exactly are we wasting energy and we need a shock? There's not much left to reduce. 

I disagree there's plenty of posts on this forum where people can't figure out why their energy usage is so high or where it's going.There is also people that can afford the price rises and don't see a need to change their habits.

Agreed, there's a lot of people who can afford it but just like complaining rather than reflecting on their usage and where savings can be made. E.g. those who state their whole family *must* have 30 minute long hot showers every day, or retired people who insist on remaining in a poorly insulted 5 bedroom house even though a 2 bedroom house would be more appropriate for them.

There are others who can't afford it but have difficulty understanding, or not willing to understand why it costs them so much and change.

Then the ones who can't afford it despite understanding the problem and managing their consumption as well as possible.

And finally those who understand the problem and manage to keep their consumption within their budget.

My observation on these forums is the latter two seem to be the minority...

I once, maybe twice put on a thread about an elderly couple not being able to afford energy and the cost of living.

I mentioned the word downsize to a more energy efficient property from their E and F property were the two in question. I listed the benefits and reduction in Council Tax, bills across the board and insurance.

Well it was like I was writing on the forum for them to put down their pets. Not from then or their siblings but other forum members.

Why should they have to move to pay energy bills.

I can see financially savvy people downsizing if this is possible. Especially if the downsize finds them with a property much better on an EPC and with Solar...The dream would be a battery system as well. 

Whilst I agree with the general principle of cutting ones cloth, houses are not liquid assets and come with quite considerable transactional costs.
you make a good point that there are other benefits and for some it might kill a few birds with one stone 
but moving and having to pay stamp duty legal fees, removals not to mention fittings and furniture (which all has to be downsized) merely to save on energy may well not be even mathematically sound.
of course if current lifestyle cannot be afforded something has to give but “just move” is a trite answer that overlooks a load of costs and hassle.
it might be interesting to work out the payback
e,g. Energy reduction = £1000 pa
costs to move = £20000
payback = 20 years
obviously those figures will vary greatly

i agree something has to give but very illiquid assets are not the obvious answer

Alnat1

You forgot the fact that a smaller property would cost less and would free up some cash to use towards the cost of living. £20,000 as cost to move seems a bit excessive too.

ChaunceyGardiner

Effician said:

Didn't realize nuclear power stations don't like hot weather.

https://www3.theedgemarkets.com/article/france-curb-nuclear-power-europes-crisis-worsens

I don’t suppose any machine that generates waste heat likes hot weather.

brewerdave

lisyloo said:

Mstty said:

littleteapot said:

Coffeekup said:

agentcain .

What do you expect customers do? Do you think people enjoy keeping the heat in winter or the AC on in summer with windows open? How exactly are we wasting energy and we need a shock? There's not much left to reduce. 

I disagree there's plenty of posts on this forum where people can't figure out why their energy usage is so high or where it's going.There is also people that can afford the price rises and don't see a need to change their habits.

Agreed, there's a lot of people who can afford it but just like complaining rather than reflecting on their usage and where savings can be made. E.g. those who state their whole family *must* have 30 minute long hot showers every day, or retired people who insist on remaining in a poorly insulted 5 bedroom house even though a 2 bedroom house would be more appropriate for them.

There are others who can't afford it but have difficulty understanding, or not willing to understand why it costs them so much and change.

Then the ones who can't afford it despite understanding the problem and managing their consumption as well as possible.

And finally those who understand the problem and manage to keep their consumption within their budget.

My observation on these forums is the latter two seem to be the minority...

I once, maybe twice put on a thread about an elderly couple not being able to afford energy and the cost of living.

I mentioned the word downsize to a more energy efficient property from their E and F property were the two in question. I listed the benefits and reduction in Council Tax, bills across the board and insurance.

Well it was like I was writing on the forum for them to put down their pets. Not from then or their siblings but other forum members.

Why should they have to move to pay energy bills.

I can see financially savvy people downsizing if this is possible. Especially if the downsize finds them with a property much better on an EPC and with Solar...The dream would be a battery system as well. 

Whilst I agree with the general principle of cutting ones cloth, houses are not liquid assets and come with quite considerable transactional costs.
you make a good point that there are other benefits and for some it might kill a few birds with one stone 
but moving and having to pay stamp duty legal fees, removals not to mention fittings and furniture (which all has to be downsized) merely to save on energy may well not be even mathematically sound.
of course if current lifestyle cannot be afforded something has to give but “just move” is a trite answer that overlooks a load of costs and hassle.
it might be interesting to work out the payback
e,g. Energy reduction = £1000 pa
costs to move = £20000
payback = 20 years
obviously those figures will vary greatly

i agree something has to give but very illiquid assets are not the obvious answer

A very big further drawback to downsizing is that we are talking about pensioners maybe in their 70s or 80s. Certainly a huge physical ask - for instance ,we are in our early 70s and not in the best of health - I couldn't manage the physical side at all so would have to pay someone to pack and move our house - and after nearly 40 years we have gathered an enormous amount of "stuff" !

Sea_Shell

What options remain though to home owners that have genuinely cut their cloth as far as they can and still can't afford their bills...

Is it Hobson's Choice of downsize or Equity Release?    Or rack up debt?

lisyloo

Alnat1 said:

You forgot the fact that a smaller property would cost less and would free up some cash to use towards the cost of living. £20,000 as cost to move seems a bit excessive too.

It was an example, but it’s not insignificant.
yes of course there is capital

lisyloo

brewerdave said:

lisyloo said:

Mstty said:

littleteapot said:

Coffeekup said:

agentcain .

What do you expect customers do? Do you think people enjoy keeping the heat in winter or the AC on in summer with windows open? How exactly are we wasting energy and we need a shock? There's not much left to reduce. 

I disagree there's plenty of posts on this forum where people can't figure out why their energy usage is so high or where it's going.There is also people that can afford the price rises and don't see a need to change their habits.

Agreed, there's a lot of people who can afford it but just like complaining rather than reflecting on their usage and where savings can be made. E.g. those who state their whole family *must* have 30 minute long hot showers every day, or retired people who insist on remaining in a poorly insulted 5 bedroom house even though a 2 bedroom house would be more appropriate for them.

There are others who can't afford it but have difficulty understanding, or not willing to understand why it costs them so much and change.

Then the ones who can't afford it despite understanding the problem and managing their consumption as well as possible.

And finally those who understand the problem and manage to keep their consumption within their budget.

My observation on these forums is the latter two seem to be the minority...

I once, maybe twice put on a thread about an elderly couple not being able to afford energy and the cost of living.

I mentioned the word downsize to a more energy efficient property from their E and F property were the two in question. I listed the benefits and reduction in Council Tax, bills across the board and insurance.

Well it was like I was writing on the forum for them to put down their pets. Not from then or their siblings but other forum members.

Why should they have to move to pay energy bills.

I can see financially savvy people downsizing if this is possible. Especially if the downsize finds them with a property much better on an EPC and with Solar...The dream would be a battery system as well. 

Whilst I agree with the general principle of cutting ones cloth, houses are not liquid assets and come with quite considerable transactional costs.
you make a good point that there are other benefits and for some it might kill a few birds with one stone 
but moving and having to pay stamp duty legal fees, removals not to mention fittings and furniture (which all has to be downsized) merely to save on energy may well not be even mathematically sound.
of course if current lifestyle cannot be afforded something has to give but “just move” is a trite answer that overlooks a load of costs and hassle.
it might be interesting to work out the payback
e,g. Energy reduction = £1000 pa
costs to move = £20000
payback = 20 years
obviously those figures will vary greatly

i agree something has to give but very illiquid assets are not the obvious answer

A very big further drawback to downsizing is that we are talking about pensioners maybe in their 70s or 80s. Certainly a huge physical ask - for instance ,we are in our early 70s and not in the best of health - I couldn't manage the physical side at all so would have to pay someone to pack and move our house - and after nearly 40 years we have gathered an enormous amount of "stuff" !

On the other hand those people you mentioned are the ones who may have other reasons to move to a smaller property. Possibly one without stairs and less maintenance to cater for old age. These things are better off done in advance that when someone is in hospital or can no longer get up the stairs.
our parents downsized to a flat with less maintenance and cleaning, no garden and also a manager to help with the maintenance side of things.