How do ordinary people make the switch to electric vehicles ?

BOWFER

Grumpy_chap said:

BOWFER said:

Colleague here just asked if I could call the local Nissan dealer on the off-chance they had a Leaf in stock.
They've got one, he's hot-footing it over now.

That sounds like desperation

Yup, desperate to take advantage of the high offers on used cars and get him out of a car he hates and into one he wants.

motorguy

Grumpy_chap said:

motorguy said:

There is no mental workout involved in comparing monthly payments.  

Arent we always (usually sneeringly) told that new car buyers only care about "the monthlies".  

If thats the case then its a simple comparison.

Or has the narrative about new car buyers been changed, because it now doesnt suit?

And sales people WILL put the effort in, if theres as much as a £1 more commission to be had for selling an EV, or if its the difference between selling a car and not selling one.

My narrative has not changed - it is the cost of buying the car that matters, the monthlies are only marketing smoke-and-mirrors.

Your faith in the skill level of car sales personnel is quite amazing and not at all aligned with my experience.
My latest encounter to "not" buy a new car was as recent as September.  Lexus kindly sent me a marketing e-mail and I was tempted by the offer, enough to:

1. research their models on line
2. select a model I thought could be a purchase, model and the trim level, even looked at colour choices in the brochure ans what we'd most prefer
3. visit the local dealer while closed to show my wife the potential model, look at the shiny new one through the window and peer inside the used examples on the forecourt
4. discuss the car with Mrs Grumpy-chap and think about and agree we'd go for it if the deal was as good as the offer and we liked the car
5. visit the local dealer to enquire about the offer and request to arrange a test drive

The "not" then quickly set in as the conversation went pretty much like this:

• Hello, I'd like to see the new ES please.
• What car do you drive currently, Sir?
• Ford Focus
• Well, you see, the ES is not really that good as a car.  Let me show you our used UX models, they are much better cars which I really like and they are cheaper.
• It's not really the type of car I like, it is a lot smaller inside.  Maybe I'd be better with a Mondeo.
• Oh right, well we have got a couple of ES models on site that you could look at if you insist.
• Well, yeah, but you just told me they are not very good, so why would I want a car that is not very good?  Perhaps we'll leave it

So, off I trotted, no new car but a sour taste in my mouth.  This is really the type of useless experience I always get when meeting car sales personnel.

I didnt say your narrative, i said the narrative.  Because its whats trotted out on forum groups about new car buyers - how they're only concerned with "the monthlies".  So then its an easy comparison of two payments that doesnt require a mathematics degree.

And sorry, but you cant dismiss PCP or leasing as "only marketing smoke and mirrors" because its the way 99% of new cars are bought.

And whilst i sympathise with your recent individual experience of a car showroom, in reality car salesmen are paid to sell cars.  They're paid on commission and have monthly targets.  Dont meet your targets and you're out.

I would say, by the way, that the salesman was trying to steer you to used cars he had available and in stock that he could sell you rather than perhaps a new car that he could get you anyway.

motorguy

BOWFER said:

motorguy said:

DrEskimo said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I agree with what is being said by our friendly and super-cool Eskimo.

People still don't go to the car showroom for a mental workout and car sales people won't put the effort in.

I don't feel that the contributors to this thread reflect the majority of people assessing the ICE / EV choice.

Flattery will get you everywhere...

I tend to agree though. That's reflective in comments like "An EV is £10k more than the ICE, I could buy 5yrs worth of petrol for that!"...

A PCP monthly sort of get around that, since it's based on depreciation (+interest), but the GFV tend to be pessimistic and not reflecting how well residuals have held. Of course this is all with hindsight. No way of knowing if that will be true of the next few years....

The people actually "buying" new cars dont care about list price though do they?

You pretty much always see new cars advertised as deposit + monthly payment.  

People buy new based on "what can i afford per month?", not "what is the list price of this car?"

Agreed, list price is completely irrelevant to the vast majority these days.
Couldn't even tell you what the buy price of my Leaf is, not interested.
Don';rt even need to know for insurance, all they ask is "is it under £70K"

Yup.  But that view doesnt suit the blockers that one or two on here are trying to find as to why these electric cars will never take off.

Heres Vauxhalls Corsa E offers page.

Not a mention of list price, just per month figures and finance examples.

https://www.vauxhall.co.uk/cars/new-corsa/offers-finance/electric/flexible-pcp.html

Interestingly, heres the equivalent ICE Corsa offers page.

https://www.vauxhall.co.uk/cars/new-corsa/offers-finance/petrol-diesel/flexible-pcp.html

Just a £26 a month difference between the petrol variant and the Electric variant, albeith with a bigger deposit on the Electric variant. 

Ganga

I know most EV are more expensive than their ICE versions BUT do they cost a lot more to insure ?

[Deleted User]

Grumpy_chap said:

BOWFER said:

Were they electric cars though?
Very common for entitled ICE drivers to use EV spaces, same sorts of nuggets that park in disabled and mother + child spaces.

This is the real problem with EV charge network as motorway services and the like. 
Most of the public services I have seen have a couple of points right near the building (obviously to reduce the cabling cost), but that makes these spaces attractive to anyone to just park in.
The alternative is the Tesla supercharger network, which is always a bank of chargers far away from buildings, so the "I'll just stop anywhere while I nip in store to pick up a sandwich" brigade won't be in those spaces.

motorguy said:

Ectophile said:

If the European car makers don't get their act together soon, and start offering sensibly priced EVs, then the Chinese are going to move in and walk all over them.  They are already buying up factories in Europe.

The Chinese manufacturers are churning out thousands of EVs, running from the ridiculously cheap (Wuling Mini EV) through to luxury models.

Which european manufacturers arent?

Peugeot / Citroen / Vauxhall have electric cars available, reasonably priced.

BMW, Mercedes, Audi also have offerings in this space, though likely dont feel an urge to have "sensibly priced" offerings.

MINI have cars in this space also.  In fact the MINI is relatively unique in being reasonably priced and Fun.

Volkswagen have the ID.3 and ID.4 which arent crazy money.

SEAT have electric car offerings coming this year.

I don't agree that those cars mentioned are "reasonably priced".

The challenge is still the "headline" price differentials which puts many people off; a simple Corsa starts from around £17k whereas the EV Corsa is from around £30k. 

Total cost of ownership may work out competitive or there may be some 'smoke-and-mirrors' around PCP rates but to get to that requires a level of analysis most people will not do - people want buying a car to be enjoyable not a whole exercise in complex  mathematics, net present value calculations and life-cycle cost analysis.

For an average family, stretching the budget to renew the family car, £25k Focus readily discounted to £20k is a win versus a smaller, Corsa EV at £30k with no discounts.

The family looking at the Focus might go towards an MG5, targeting at £22k after discounts, which brings us full circle - these Chinese manufacturers are going to take this EV market and the legacy manufacturers will die in their sleepy hollows.

It's worth getting a nice long charging lead for situations were ICE idiots block spaces. Then you can just block them in and run the cable around, or maybe park in an adjacent space if there is one.

[Deleted User]

Ganga said:

I know most EV are more expensive than their ICE versions BUT do they cost a lot more to insure ?

They are like fossil cars, the performance ones are expensive and the more reasonable ones are cheaper. I don't recall my Leaf insurance being any more expensive than the fossil car I had previously.

Due to their higher prices EVs tend to come fitted with more safety equipment as standard, which helps lower the insurance cost.

The main saving with an EV is fuel though. Half the cost of my lease was offset by fuel savings with electricity vs. petrol.

Depending on how much your time is worth the time savings are incalculable. No more diverting to a petrol stating and standing around pumping dirty, smelly liquid. Just charge at home, a few seconds to plug and unplug a couple of times a week.

BOWFER

Ganga said:

I know most EV are more expensive than their ICE versions BUT do they cost a lot more to insure ?

No difference at all for me.

BOWFER

[Deleted User] said:

Ganga said:

I know most EV are more expensive than their ICE versions BUT do they cost a lot more to insure ?

No more diverting to a petrol stating and standing around pumping dirty, smelly liquid. Just charge at home, a few seconds to plug and unplug a couple of times a week.

That's such a boon for me, especially when filling up a diesel often seems to involved standing in a pool of sand reeking of the stuff due to a previous spill and your shoes/car then reeks of it for ages too.
No more diversion on the way home to refuel, straight home all the time.
Don't forget the app to preheat the car too, especially with winter coming.

Jaimeteddy

With fuel prices on the rise today, switching to electric vehicles is also a reasonable solution. And the future trend, electric cars will be more and more popular like the Tesla Model 3. My wife owned this car 2 years ago, it's electric so it's very quiet on the road. I used Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06 Plus tires on this car, and it's really great in terms of performance as well as noise and comfort. Hope to help you https://tireer.com/best-tires-for-tesla-model-3/

Grumpy_chap

motorguy said:

I didnt say your narrative, i said the narrative.  Because its whats trotted out on forum groups about new car buyers - how they're only concerned with "the monthlies".  So then its an easy comparison of two payments that doesnt require a mathematics degree.

And sorry, but you cant dismiss PCP or leasing as "only marketing smoke and mirrors" because its the way 99% of new cars are bought.

I am not sure the prevalence of PCP is as high as 99%, but it is certainly a significant proportion / almost certainly a majority of private purchases.

And that is the proof absolute of the marketing genius that PCP is for the car manufacturers as they want customers to simply compare the monthlies with the full costs obscure.  To actually understand does require some maths which people either don't want to do or are unable to do.  Using your example linked of the Corsa ICE vs EV:

ICE = £239 / month
EV = £265 / month
Difference "only £26" is actually 10%

Over the PCP term, the difference grows:
ICE = £14k
EV = £17k
Difference £3k is 21%

If the car is then purchased at the end of the agreement:
ICE = £21k
EV = £29k
Difference £8k = 40%

BUT, you also posted higher up the thread that the ICE Corsa (petrol) was available at £16.5k and the EV at £23k.  So, both of these PCP plans have delivered a low-value total cost of acquisition.  

motorguy said:

And whilst i sympathise with your recent individual experience of a car showroom, in reality car salesmen are paid to sell cars.  They're paid on commission and have monthly targets.  Dont meet your targets and you're out.

That recent experience is fairly typical of every experience dealing with car dealers.  They are a very substandard batch of individuals so far as I can ascertain.  The biggest thing the sales personnel always fail to grasp is that any car costing more than about £1k is a discretionary purchase so I've got to be made to feel valued.