How do ordinary people make the switch to electric vehicles ?

[Deleted User]

Vegastare said:

Wasn't there grant funding a few years back for home charging points...75% grant I think.....don't think many took it up back then

Yeah, I made use of that to get my charger.

Unfortunately the grant has been cut and you have to have a smart charger now, rather than a simpler dumb one that will be more reliable and not get hacked.

The cost of chargers has fallen a lot though, so these days it's barely worth using the grant.

Grumpy_chap

BOWFER said:

Were they electric cars though?
Very common for entitled ICE drivers to use EV spaces, same sorts of nuggets that park in disabled and mother + child spaces.

This is the real problem with EV charge network as motorway services and the like. 
Most of the public services I have seen have a couple of points right near the building (obviously to reduce the cabling cost), but that makes these spaces attractive to anyone to just park in.
The alternative is the Tesla supercharger network, which is always a bank of chargers far away from buildings, so the "I'll just stop anywhere while I nip in store to pick up a sandwich" brigade won't be in those spaces.

motorguy said:

Ectophile said:

If the European car makers don't get their act together soon, and start offering sensibly priced EVs, then the Chinese are going to move in and walk all over them.  They are already buying up factories in Europe.

The Chinese manufacturers are churning out thousands of EVs, running from the ridiculously cheap (Wuling Mini EV) through to luxury models.

Which european manufacturers arent?

Peugeot / Citroen / Vauxhall have electric cars available, reasonably priced.

BMW, Mercedes, Audi also have offerings in this space, though likely dont feel an urge to have "sensibly priced" offerings.

MINI have cars in this space also.  In fact the MINI is relatively unique in being reasonably priced and Fun.

Volkswagen have the ID.3 and ID.4 which arent crazy money.

SEAT have electric car offerings coming this year.

I don't agree that those cars mentioned are "reasonably priced".

The challenge is still the "headline" price differentials which puts many people off; a simple Corsa starts from around £17k whereas the EV Corsa is from around £30k. 

Total cost of ownership may work out competitive or there may be some 'smoke-and-mirrors' around PCP rates but to get to that requires a level of analysis most people will not do - people want buying a car to be enjoyable not a whole exercise in complex  mathematics, net present value calculations and life-cycle cost analysis.

For an average family, stretching the budget to renew the family car, £25k Focus readily discounted to £20k is a win versus a smaller, Corsa EV at £30k with no discounts.

The family looking at the Focus might go towards an MG5, targeting at £22k after discounts, which brings us full circle - these Chinese manufacturers are going to take this EV market and the legacy manufacturers will die in their sleepy hollows.

[Deleted User]

How well do the batteries last till say £5000 for a car?
I have never bought a car on the never never and a great concern is when the 2nd hand value drops to where my situation now allows, it will be a knackered dead weight.

BOWFER

There's definitely panic setting in the established manufacturers, and not necessarily due to the Chinese.
VW's CEO called an emergency meeting with 150 of their managers just last week, asking them why Tesla can build a car every 10 hours and they take double that to build an ID3 (and reportedly losing money on every one too).
I bet there were a few collars being pulled away from necks in that meeting.

Jenni_D

BOWFER said:

There's definitely panic setting in the established manufacturers, and not necessarily due to the Chinese.
VW's CEO called an emergency meeting with 150 of their managers just last week, asking them why Tesla can build a car every 10 hours and they take double that to build an ID3 (and reportedly losing money on every one too).
I bet there were a few collars being pulled away from necks in that meeting.

The obvious reason is that Tesla is set up from the outset to make EVs, whereas for the legacy brands an EV is a side-line rather than a mainstream product.

Ectophile

motorguy said:

Ectophile said:

If the European car makers don't get their act together soon, and start offering sensibly priced EVs, then the Chinese are going to move in and walk all over them.  They are already buying up factories in Europe.

The Chinese manufacturers are churning out thousands of EVs, running from the ridiculously cheap (Wuling Mini EV) through to luxury models.

Which european manufacturers arent?

Peugeot / Citroen / Vauxhall have electric cars available, reasonably priced.

BMW, Mercedes, Audi also have offerings in this space, though likely dont feel an urge to have "sensibly priced" offerings.

MINI have cars in this space also.  In fact the MINI is relatively unique in being reasonably priced and Fun.

Volkswagen have the ID.3 and ID.4 which arent crazy money.

SEAT have electric car offerings coming this year.

Seat had a reasonably priced EV - the Mii EV.  It was about £20000.  They discontinued it.

Meanwhile a Vauxhall Mokka E comes in at around £31000, while a Chinese MG ZS EV is more like £26000.

If you were in China, you could pick up a Wuling Mini EV for the Yuan equivalent of about £3400.  OK, that is about as basic as a 4-seater car can get, but it shows that EVs don't have to be unaffordably expensive.

MX5huggy

BOWFER said:

There's definitely panic setting in the established manufacturers, and not necessarily due to the Chinese.
VW's CEO called an emergency meeting with 150 of their managers just last week, asking them why Tesla can build a car every 10 hours and they take double that to build an ID3 (and reportedly losing money on every one too).
I bet there were a few collars being pulled away from necks in that meeting.

I hope Tesla are building more than one every 10 hours, it would take them 114 years just to fulfil one order placed this week (100000 cars for Hertz). 

BOWFER

Jenni_D said:

BOWFER said:

There's definitely panic setting in the established manufacturers, and not necessarily due to the Chinese.
VW's CEO called an emergency meeting with 150 of their managers just last week, asking them why Tesla can build a car every 10 hours and they take double that to build an ID3 (and reportedly losing money on every one too).
I bet there were a few collars being pulled away from necks in that meeting.

The obvious reason is that Tesla is set up from the outset to make EVs, whereas for the legacy brands an EV is a side-line rather than a mainstream product.

I'm sure the question from VW's CEO was rhetorical, basically telling his managers they need to get cars built faster.
Tesla build methods are apparently more time consuming too, using more body welds than normal etc.

Grumpy_chap

Ectophile said:

Seat had a reasonably priced EV - the Mii EV.  It was about £20000.  They discontinued it.

I don't think that £20k for car of that diminutive stature is reasonably priced.  By comparison, if I recall correctly, you could have had two ICE engined of the same car for that price.

motorguy

Grumpy_chap said:

BOWFER said:

Were they electric cars though?
Very common for entitled ICE drivers to use EV spaces, same sorts of nuggets that park in disabled and mother + child spaces.

This is the real problem with EV charge network as motorway services and the like. 
Most of the public services I have seen have a couple of points right near the building (obviously to reduce the cabling cost), but that makes these spaces attractive to anyone to just park in.
The alternative is the Tesla supercharger network, which is always a bank of chargers far away from buildings, so the "I'll just stop anywhere while I nip in store to pick up a sandwich" brigade won't be in those spaces.

motorguy said:

Ectophile said:

If the European car makers don't get their act together soon, and start offering sensibly priced EVs, then the Chinese are going to move in and walk all over them.  They are already buying up factories in Europe.

The Chinese manufacturers are churning out thousands of EVs, running from the ridiculously cheap (Wuling Mini EV) through to luxury models.

Which european manufacturers arent?

Peugeot / Citroen / Vauxhall have electric cars available, reasonably priced.

BMW, Mercedes, Audi also have offerings in this space, though likely dont feel an urge to have "sensibly priced" offerings.

MINI have cars in this space also.  In fact the MINI is relatively unique in being reasonably priced and Fun.

Volkswagen have the ID.3 and ID.4 which arent crazy money.

SEAT have electric car offerings coming this year.

I don't agree that those cars mentioned are "reasonably priced".

The challenge is still the "headline" price differentials which puts many people off; a simple Corsa starts from around £17k whereas the EV Corsa is from around £30k. 

Total cost of ownership may work out competitive or there may be some 'smoke-and-mirrors' around PCP rates but to get to that requires a level of analysis most people will not do - people want buying a car to be enjoyable not a whole exercise in complex  mathematics, net present value calculations and life-cycle cost analysis.

For an average family, stretching the budget to renew the family car, £25k Focus readily discounted to £20k is a win versus a smaller, Corsa EV at £30k with no discounts.

The family looking at the Focus might go towards an MG5, targeting at £22k after discounts, which brings us full circle - these Chinese manufacturers are going to take this EV market and the legacy manufacturers will die in their sleepy hollows.

More than a cursory look by a prospective buyer tells a different story though - a new Corsa 1.2 SE Nav Premium can be bought for £16,440 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/new/202105202856467

A diesel one is £18,299

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/new/202105212912973

However the electric variant isnt £30K...  it can be got for £23,250.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/new/202105212921542

So thats £5K of difference, not £13K.

I'd imagine any salesman worth their salt could come up with very compelling reasons for someone to go for the electric variant (which includes a £800 home charger free).

And in reality, new cars are pretty much always bought on a PCP or lease deal.  So its going to be down to "the monthlies" which again could be swung in favour of the EV once you factor in fuel savings.

Ford seem a little off the mark at the minute but VW have the ID.3 electric car which i suspect would compare well to a medium spec Golf when looking at "the monthlies".