How do ordinary people make the switch to electric vehicles ?

Herzlos

You could easily sell a £5k purchase difference with no tax, no congestion/LEZ charges, less maintenance, cheaper fuel and warm fuzzy feelings.

You'd need to own it for a while or do higher mileages for the EV to actually be cheaper if you're not worrying about the congestion charges.

I reckon I'd save about £800-1000/year in running costs for going electric.

Grumpy_chap

motorguy said:

So thats £5K of difference, not £13K.

I'd imagine any salesman worth their salt could come up with very compelling reasons for someone to go for the electric variant (which includes a £800 home charger free).

I agree that a £5k delta can very convincingly result in more favourable total cost of ownership.
People still don't want to be doing mathematical gymnastic when choosing their next car.
In my experience, the average car sales person would be unable to sell heaters to Eskimos unless the Eskimo was begging them to sell - even then, half the time the sales person would fail to seal the deal.

DrEskimo

Grumpy_chap said:

motorguy said:

So thats £5K of difference, not £13K.

I'd imagine any salesman worth their salt could come up with very compelling reasons for someone to go for the electric variant (which includes a £800 home charger free).

I agree that a £5k delta can very convincingly result in more favourable total cost of ownership.
People still don't want to be doing mathematical gymnastic when choosing their next car.
In my experience, the average car sales person would be unable to sell heaters to Eskimos unless the Eskimo was begging them to sell - even then, half the time the sales person would fail to seal the deal.

I don't need any heaters.

DrEskimo

motorguy said:

Grumpy_chap said:

BOWFER said:

Were they electric cars though?
Very common for entitled ICE drivers to use EV spaces, same sorts of nuggets that park in disabled and mother + child spaces.

This is the real problem with EV charge network as motorway services and the like. 
Most of the public services I have seen have a couple of points right near the building (obviously to reduce the cabling cost), but that makes these spaces attractive to anyone to just park in.
The alternative is the Tesla supercharger network, which is always a bank of chargers far away from buildings, so the "I'll just stop anywhere while I nip in store to pick up a sandwich" brigade won't be in those spaces.

motorguy said:

Ectophile said:

If the European car makers don't get their act together soon, and start offering sensibly priced EVs, then the Chinese are going to move in and walk all over them.  They are already buying up factories in Europe.

The Chinese manufacturers are churning out thousands of EVs, running from the ridiculously cheap (Wuling Mini EV) through to luxury models.

Which european manufacturers arent?

Peugeot / Citroen / Vauxhall have electric cars available, reasonably priced.

BMW, Mercedes, Audi also have offerings in this space, though likely dont feel an urge to have "sensibly priced" offerings.

MINI have cars in this space also.  In fact the MINI is relatively unique in being reasonably priced and Fun.

Volkswagen have the ID.3 and ID.4 which arent crazy money.

SEAT have electric car offerings coming this year.

I don't agree that those cars mentioned are "reasonably priced".

The challenge is still the "headline" price differentials which puts many people off; a simple Corsa starts from around £17k whereas the EV Corsa is from around £30k. 

Total cost of ownership may work out competitive or there may be some 'smoke-and-mirrors' around PCP rates but to get to that requires a level of analysis most people will not do - people want buying a car to be enjoyable not a whole exercise in complex  mathematics, net present value calculations and life-cycle cost analysis.

For an average family, stretching the budget to renew the family car, £25k Focus readily discounted to £20k is a win versus a smaller, Corsa EV at £30k with no discounts.

The family looking at the Focus might go towards an MG5, targeting at £22k after discounts, which brings us full circle - these Chinese manufacturers are going to take this EV market and the legacy manufacturers will die in their sleepy hollows.

More than a cursory look by a prospective buyer tells a different story though - a new Corsa 1.2 SE Nav Premium can be bought for £16,440 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/new/202105202856467

A diesel one is £18,299

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/new/202105212912973

However the electric variant isnt £30K...  it can be got for £23,250.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/new/202105212921542

So thats £5K of difference, not £13K.

I'd imagine any salesman worth their salt could come up with very compelling reasons for someone to go for the electric variant (which includes a £800 home charger free).

And in reality, new cars are pretty much always bought on a PCP or lease deal.  So its going to be down to "the monthlies" which again could be swung in favour of the EV once you factor in fuel savings.

Ford seem a little off the mark at the minute but VW have the ID.3 electric car which i suspect would compare well to a medium spec Golf when looking at "the monthlies".

Difference between my 2yr old Zoe with 5,000 miles on the clock to a similar year/mileage/spec/trim/power Clio was only £2k from a main dealer.

Herzlos said:

You could easily sell a £5k purchase difference with no tax, no congestion/LEZ charges, less maintenance, cheaper fuel and warm fuzzy feelings.

You'd need to own it for a while or do higher mileages for the EV to actually be cheaper if you're not worrying about the congestion charges.

I reckon I'd save about £800-1000/year in running costs for going electric.

Don't forget a far nicer driving experience. Near silent with instant, linear power delivery that can beat most cars off the line!

When you factor in lower depreciation, the cost savings are actually quite quick. I've only done 9,000 miles over the last 3yrs I've owned mine, but I know it's total cost relative to if I bought the comparable Clio above is much lower. Probably as much as half due to how well it's maintained it's value.

motorguy

Grumpy_chap said:

motorguy said:

So thats £5K of difference, not £13K.

I'd imagine any salesman worth their salt could come up with very compelling reasons for someone to go for the electric variant (which includes a £800 home charger free).

I agree that a £5k delta can very convincingly result in more favourable total cost of ownership.
People still don't want to be doing mathematical gymnastic when choosing their next car.
In my experience, the average car sales person would be unable to sell heaters to Eskimos unless the Eskimo was begging them to sell - even then, half the time the sales person would fail to seal the deal.

They dont need to.  With a new car purchase its almost always down to monthly payments.

Thats what it will come down to.

And a trained monkey could show that ICE Monthly Payment + Fuel Costs is greater than EV monthly payment.

Grumpy_chap

I agree with what is being said by our friendly and super-cool Eskimo.

People still don't go to the car showroom for a mental workout and car sales people won't put the effort in.

I don't feel that the contributors to this thread reflect the majority of people assessing the ICE / EV choice.

DrEskimo

Grumpy_chap said:

I agree with what is being said by our friendly and super-cool Eskimo.

People still don't go to the car showroom for a mental workout and car sales people won't put the effort in.

I don't feel that the contributors to this thread reflect the majority of people assessing the ICE / EV choice.

Flattery will get you everywhere...

I tend to agree though. That's reflective in comments like "An EV is £10k more than the ICE, I could buy 5yrs worth of petrol for that!"...

A PCP monthly sort of get around that, since it's based on depreciation (+interest), but the GFV tend to be pessimistic and not reflecting how well residuals have held. Of course this is all with hindsight. No way of knowing if that will be true of the next few years....

Grumpy_chap

DrEskimo said:
flattery will get you everywhere...

Now, let me demonstrate this new range of heaters just in.  You can be  cool as an Eskimo yet also as snug as a bug in a rug.

Marvel1

BOWFER said:

Marvel1 said:

What outs me off EV is charging, cannot install at home.

Leaves me with public places, what am I suppose to while charging? Stand around.

Recently visited Mcdonald got a space next to EV charger, noticed 2 cars parked in the available - none were charging.

Were they electric cars though?
Very common for entitled ICE drivers to use EV spaces, same sorts of nuggets that park in disabled and mother + child spaces.
If you're sure they were both EVs and both not actively charging, then that's unusual and they were chancing being berated by an EV driver who really needed the charger.
If you don't need a charge, you don't use an EV space - it's that simple.

I didn't see a cable attached to their cars, you are relaying on drivers bot being selfish but it's going to happen when the space is free and car park is full already.

Sea_Shell

DrEskimo said:

motorguy said:

Grumpy_chap said:

BOWFER said:

Were they electric cars though?
Very common for entitled ICE drivers to use EV spaces, same sorts of nuggets that park in disabled and mother + child spaces.

This is the real problem with EV charge network as motorway services and the like. 
Most of the public services I have seen have a couple of points right near the building (obviously to reduce the cabling cost), but that makes these spaces attractive to anyone to just park in.
The alternative is the Tesla supercharger network, which is always a bank of chargers far away from buildings, so the "I'll just stop anywhere while I nip in store to pick up a sandwich" brigade won't be in those spaces.

motorguy said:

Ectophile said:

If the European car makers don't get their act together soon, and start offering sensibly priced EVs, then the Chinese are going to move in and walk all over them.  They are already buying up factories in Europe.

The Chinese manufacturers are churning out thousands of EVs, running from the ridiculously cheap (Wuling Mini EV) through to luxury models.

Which european manufacturers arent?

Peugeot / Citroen / Vauxhall have electric cars available, reasonably priced.

BMW, Mercedes, Audi also have offerings in this space, though likely dont feel an urge to have "sensibly priced" offerings.

MINI have cars in this space also.  In fact the MINI is relatively unique in being reasonably priced and Fun.

Volkswagen have the ID.3 and ID.4 which arent crazy money.

SEAT have electric car offerings coming this year.

I don't agree that those cars mentioned are "reasonably priced".

The challenge is still the "headline" price differentials which puts many people off; a simple Corsa starts from around £17k whereas the EV Corsa is from around £30k. 

Total cost of ownership may work out competitive or there may be some 'smoke-and-mirrors' around PCP rates but to get to that requires a level of analysis most people will not do - people want buying a car to be enjoyable not a whole exercise in complex  mathematics, net present value calculations and life-cycle cost analysis.

For an average family, stretching the budget to renew the family car, £25k Focus readily discounted to £20k is a win versus a smaller, Corsa EV at £30k with no discounts.

The family looking at the Focus might go towards an MG5, targeting at £22k after discounts, which brings us full circle - these Chinese manufacturers are going to take this EV market and the legacy manufacturers will die in their sleepy hollows.

More than a cursory look by a prospective buyer tells a different story though - a new Corsa 1.2 SE Nav Premium can be bought for £16,440 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/new/202105202856467

A diesel one is £18,299

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/new/202105212912973

However the electric variant isnt £30K...  it can be got for £23,250.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/new/202105212921542

So thats £5K of difference, not £13K.

I'd imagine any salesman worth their salt could come up with very compelling reasons for someone to go for the electric variant (which includes a £800 home charger free).

And in reality, new cars are pretty much always bought on a PCP or lease deal.  So its going to be down to "the monthlies" which again could be swung in favour of the EV once you factor in fuel savings.

Ford seem a little off the mark at the minute but VW have the ID.3 electric car which i suspect would compare well to a medium spec Golf when looking at "the monthlies".

Don't forget a far nicer driving experience. Near silent with instant, linear power delivery that can beat most cars off the line!

Has anyone found that its easier to end up going faster than you thought in an EV, due to its silent running, as you don't have any other references (gear, engine tone) to indicate to you you how fast you're going, other than your speedo?

Or are they all so clever (the cars that is, not the drivers!) that they know the given speed on any road and automatically restrict you to the speed limit?