Energy Blackouts more likely!

Tokmon

sevenhills said:

Tokmon said:

 

So you honestly think the main reason that smarts meters were introduced is so they can regularly limit and turn off people's energy supply instead of improving the UK energy supplies?.

Users that are at risk of defaulting on their energy payment are given token meters which are expensive and costly to operate.

Surely better to have technology that can switch off supply? Cars are even sold under credit term which are advertised as the credit company able to immobilise the car if payment stop.

Many people seem to be anti-technology, its progress.

I'm not disagreeing with the technology and i think they are good features to have in the new meters so they are future proofed for when the energy market evolves over time. 

I just disagree with people who think there is a big conspiracy theory where the sole reason they want everyone to have smart meters is so they can turn the supply off and on willy nilly for everyone instead of improve the uk energy supply.  

A._Badger

Tokmon said:

I'm not disagreeing with the technology and i think they are good features to have in the new meters so they are future proofed for when the energy market evolves over time. 

I just disagree with people who think there is a big conspiracy theory where the sole reason they want everyone to have smart meters is so they can turn the supply off and on willy nilly for everyone instead of improve the uk energy supply.  

The only actions that could genuinely 'improve the UK energy supply' would be improvements to the capacity and reliability of the National Grid and the long overdue addition of reliable generating capacity. Smart meters cannot do either - all they can possibly hope to do is make users reduce consumption - and relying on the old warhorse of accusing anyone who disagrees with their adoption of propagating  'conspiracy theories' is as worn out as it is disingenuous. 

This is a already a significantly over-budget exercise and it looks as if the UK going to wind up in a similar position to Ontario, where in 2014 their Auditor General concluded the roll-out had cost nearly twice the estimated price and had delivered little in the way of savings or anticipated reduction in demand. But even if the UK's programme worked as intended, it would still act against the interest of consumers because its intention is to make users adapt their lives to the needs of the supplier rather than vice versa. We will have gone, in a handful of years, from a largely demand-led energy market to one led by supply dictated by government policy. 

In a free market, suppliers compete to produce and sell at an affordable price what consumers want and make it available when they want it. Smart meters, however much smoke is laid down, are there to make people reduce their energy consumption because government says they must.  

Cutting off energy supplies is, indeed, one of the intended uses of smart meters (as even meter fans on this forum admit) but you neglect to mention the potential nightmare of 'time of use' pricing, which would see consumers having to decide when to switch on their washing machines, not when it is convenient for them to do the washing, but when they can afford to, or even (ultimately perhaps) when they are allowed to do. The former head of Ofgem's meter technology department has actually admitted 'time of use' charging is a 'hidden agenda' (as quoted by the Daily Telegraph, not noted for its promotion of 'conspiracy theories').

The smart meter programme is designed to help mitigate (or even partially conceal) a shortage of supply, brought about by successive governments' energy policies. It is a shame smart meter advocates can't bring themselves to admit it. 

MWT

A._Badger said:

 
...but you neglect to mention the potential nightmare of 'time of use' pricing, which would see consumers having to decide when to switch on their washing machines, not when it is convenient for them to do the washing, but when they can afford to, or even (ultimately perhaps) when they are allowed to do.

Your nightmare is my dream... I've never paid less for my energy than I have since getting a smart meter and hence having access to ToU tariffs.

A._Badger said:

But even if the UK's programme worked as intended, it would still act against the interest of consumers because its intention is to make users adapt their lives to the needs of the supplier rather than vice versa. We will have gone, in a handful of years, from a largely demand-led energy market to one led by supply dictated by government policy. 

In a free market, suppliers compete to produce and sell at an affordable price what consumers want and make it available when they want it. Smart meters, however much smoke is laid down, are there to make people reduce their energy consumption because government says they must. 

That's a bit like saying we shouldn't make changes to help save the environment, the planet just needs to adapt to our needs...

Not sure that is going to work...

Tokmon

A._Badger said:

Tokmon said:

I'm not disagreeing with the technology and i think they are good features to have in the new meters so they are future proofed for when the energy market evolves over time. 

I just disagree with people who think there is a big conspiracy theory where the sole reason they want everyone to have smart meters is so they can turn the supply off and on willy nilly for everyone instead of improve the uk energy supply.  

The only actions that could genuinely 'improve the UK energy supply' would be improvements to the capacity and reliability of the National Grid and the long overdue addition of reliable generating capacity. Smart meters cannot do either - all they can possibly hope to do is make users reduce consumption - and relying on the old warhorse of accusing anyone who disagrees with their adoption of propagating  'conspiracy theories' is as worn out as it is disingenuous. 

That is what they are doing with the North Sea Link which will add extra power when needed to the national grid.

I called it a "conspiracy theory" as that is exactly what it is; your saying there is a secret plan to disconnect people using smart meters instead of improving the national grid. Unless you can provide documentation that shows they are planning this then it will reman a conspiracy theory for the time being. The recent improvements to capacity with the North Sea Link shows the plan is to improve the energy capacity and not rely on cutting people off. 

This is a already a significantly over-budget exercise and it looks as if the UK going to wind up in a similar position to Ontario, where in 2014 their Auditor General concluded the roll-out had cost nearly twice the estimated price and had delivered little in the way of savings or anticipated reduction in demand. But even if the UK's programme worked as intended, it would still act against the interest of consumers because its intention is to make users adapt their lives to the needs of the supplier rather than vice versa. We will have gone, in a handful of years, from a largely demand-led energy market to one led by supply dictated by government policy. 

In a free market, suppliers compete to produce and sell at an affordable price what consumers want and make it available when they want it. Smart meters, however much smoke is laid down, are there to make people reduce their energy consumption because government says they must.  

Cutting off energy supplies is, indeed, one of the intended uses of smart meters (as even meter fans on this forum admit) but you neglect to mention the potential nightmare of 'time of use' pricing, which would see consumers having to decide when to switch on their washing machines, not when it is convenient for them to do the washing, but when they can afford to, or even (ultimately perhaps) when they are allowed to do. The former head of Ofgem's meter technology department has actually admitted 'time of use' charging is a 'hidden agenda' (as quoted by the Daily Telegraph, not noted for its promotion of 'conspiracy theories').

The smart meter programme is designed to help mitigate (or even partially conceal) a shortage of supply, brought about by successive governments' energy policies. It is a shame smart meter advocates can't bring themselves to admit it. 

The amount of posts on here alone where people get "unexpected" bills because they don't submit readings is justification alone for smart meters. 

I think time of use tariffs are a good thing and many people already benefit from these with Economy 7 and 10 and save money compared to being on a single rate. Time of use tariffs will mean people can save money by running their dishwashers, washing machines, tumble driers etc when it's cheaper as these aren't things that need to be run at a specific time of the day. 

You keep saying cutting off supplies is "one of the intended uses of smart meters" but what evidence do you have to show this? 

Energy companies don't make money if people's supplies are turned off so this would be an absolutely last resort for them but you are acting as this is going to be a regular occurrence. 

Going back to my car airbag analogy; it would be wrong to say "the airbags going off is one of the intended uses of the car". Everything i have seen the cut off feature is an emergency feature just like an airbag. Just because it's a feature doesn't mean it will ever be used.

MWT

Tokmon said:

Everything i have seen the cut off feature is an emergency feature just like an airbag. Just because it's a feature doesn't mean it will ever be used.

... or a desired and intended part of an optional kW limited tariff where the customer pays less for agreeing to reduce their peak kW usage below a set amount. The cut-off is triggered by exceeding the agree limit for a set period of time, and then power is restored once the items causing the high usage are switched off by the customer and they request it to be reactivated.

This sort of tariff is relatively common in other countries.

Tokmon

MWT said:

Tokmon said:

Everything i have seen the cut off feature is an emergency feature just like an airbag. Just because it's a feature doesn't mean it will ever be used.

... or a desired and intended part of an optional kW limited tariff where the customer pays less for agreeing to reduce their peak kW usage below a set amount. The cut-off is triggered by exceeding the agree limit for a set period of time, and then power is restored once the items causing the high usage are switched off by the customer and they request it to be reactivated.

This sort of tariff is relatively common in other countries.

Yes good point. 

QrizB

MWT said:

A._Badger said:

 
...but you neglect to mention the potential nightmare of 'time of use' pricing, which would see consumers having to decide when to switch on their washing machines, not when it is convenient for them to do the washing, but when they can afford to, or even (ultimately perhaps) when they are allowed to do.

Your nightmare is my dream... I've never paid less for my energy than I have since getting a smart meter and hence having access to ToU tariffs.

I tend to agree. ToU tariffs are the reason I got my smart meter. Before my current ToU tariff, I haven't had electricity this cheaply in a decade or more.

savefortherain

sevenhills said:

Cars are even sold under credit term which are advertised as the credit company able to immobilise the car if payment stop.

We really do live in a boring dystopia

sevenhills

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/qatar-uk-asks-gulf-state-become-supplier-last-resort-gas?fbclid=IwAR217trZAUgu-YM_PwMIqQKySNn7fJo8Pm28N682WCimcBAi3t0PTkorbvQ

British government officials have held talks with the Gulf state over a long-term arrangement to ensure a stable supply of liquefied natural gas (LNG) to the UK, according to sources speaking to the Financial Times. Not sure if this is a solution to our gas supply problems, or it just highlights that we may have problems ahead.

[Deleted User]

sevenhills said:

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/qatar-uk-asks-gulf-state-become-supplier-last-resort-gas?fbclid=IwAR217trZAUgu-YM_PwMIqQKySNn7fJo8Pm28N682WCimcBAi3t0PTkorbvQ

British government officials have held talks with the Gulf state over a long-term arrangement to ensure a stable supply of liquefied natural gas (LNG) to the UK, according to sources speaking to the Financial Times. Not sure if this is a solution to our gas supply problems, or it just highlights that we may have problems ahead.

Supply yes: price?

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/asia-lng-price-soars-china-power-crunch-european-demand-2021-10-08/