Energy Blackouts more likely!

A._Badger

niktheguru said:

Verdigris said:

You can rely on Gerry to find the negative in absolutely everything. It's what keeps him going!

Gerry certainly does love a bit of scaremongering, particularly when smart meters are mentioned. Does he seriously believe that if there is a need for a blackout it will be aimed solely at smart meter users!

it’s also funny how the “green energy brigade” have kept eerily quiet during this period where we are lacking energy due to decreased “wind”. Though I suppose you can argue that if the government put more investment in renewable energy (or kept better non renewable provisions/backups) we perhaps wouldn’t be in this mess.

More than a little unfair to Gerry. What he does is spell out the facts. If they are uncomfortable it's as well to remember that it's always unwise to shoot the messenger. As for smart meters, the point is that they are designed to allow power rationing and differential charging.  If you think that is a 'Good Thing' why pretend that it's 'scaremongering'? If you don't, then at least you have been warned.

MWT

A._Badger said:

As for smart meters, the point is that they are designed to allow power rationing and differential charging.  If you think that is a 'Good Thing' why pretend that it's 'scaremongering'? If you don't, then at least you have been warned.

There is always a difference between presenting a balanced view and one that only highlights a potential negative and presents it as as an immanent certainty

It would be like telling everyone that relying on mains electricity is highly unsafe as the DNO can turn it off any time they want!

Yes, it is true, and yes it might just happen this winter, but it has been a very long time since it last actually happened so worrying about it for the last 40 years or more would have been scaremongering...

Tokmon

A._Badger said:

niktheguru said:

Verdigris said:

You can rely on Gerry to find the negative in absolutely everything. It's what keeps him going!

Gerry certainly does love a bit of scaremongering, particularly when smart meters are mentioned. Does he seriously believe that if there is a need for a blackout it will be aimed solely at smart meter users!

it’s also funny how the “green energy brigade” have kept eerily quiet during this period where we are lacking energy due to decreased “wind”. Though I suppose you can argue that if the government put more investment in renewable energy (or kept better non renewable provisions/backups) we perhaps wouldn’t be in this mess.

More than a little unfair to Gerry. What he does is spell out the facts. If they are uncomfortable it's as well to remember that it's always unwise to shoot the messenger. As for smart meters, the point is that they are designed to allow power rationing and differential charging.  If you think that is a 'Good Thing' why pretend that it's 'scaremongering'? If you don't, then at least you have been warned.

This was his post at the start of the thread:

Gerry1 said:

Now you know why smart meters are being promoted so ruthlessly !  Aficionados who though that all they did was to connect to a shiny toy and phone home with meter readings may discover sooner rather than later some of the the unpublicised features such as Load Limiting and Load Shedding that are built-in and have been used in anger in southern Africa for several years.

This post says that smart meters are being promoted "so ruthlessly" because they want to use the load limited and load shedding features due to potential blackouts as stated in the OP.

But how is that a "fact" ? 
There is no evidence whatsoever that these features are planned to be used or that they are being installed mainly due to these reasons. He isn't simply stating facts by saying how these features work and how they could be used he is basically saying this is the the main reason they are being installed which is just his opinion and not based on any facts.

UnclaimedEnergy

Gerry1 said:

MWT said:

... and those without smart meters may wish to remember that the DNO still has the same 'off switch' as they had in the 70's ...

True, but being 'Wide Area, All or Nothing' it's much more of a blunt instrument and carries much, much higher political risks.

So the negative is that your house might be turned off and hospitals might be kept on?

Blooming smart meters helping to save lives.....

Verdigris

Let us suppose there may be a need for electricity to be cut owing to temporary supply constraints. With the grid and distribution system as it is, the only way to achieve supply/demand balance is the switch off whole areas, to various degrees. Once smart meters are near universal it would be possible to be more selective in cuts, so people on the priority register who have electrical medical equipment to maintain, for example, can remain connected.

A._Badger

Tokmon said:

But how is that a "fact" ? 
There is no evidence whatsoever that these features are planned to be used or that they are being installed mainly due to these reasons. He isn't simply stating facts by saying how these features work and how they could be used he is basically saying this is the the main reason they are being installed which is just his opinion and not based on any facts.

The ability to remotely switch off the supply to individual users is part of the meter's specification. Are you seriously trying to suggest that this provision would have been made unless it were going to be used? Do you believe it is unreasonable to explain that fact to people who may otherwise have heard nothing about them other than the largely mythical savings they may enable users to make? 

It is now well established that neither the National Grid nor the UK's power generating capacity have been expanded sufficiently to meet demand and will, by the government's own admission, even struggle to meet demand this coming winter. Only the most obtuse would try to claim that one of the main reasons these meters have been introduced is an attempt to mitigate those failings.    

Verdigris

No meter can save you electricity but a smart meter can make it easier for people to see where their energy is going, in real time, and in terms they may find easier to understand. However, the point of smart meters is to get a better picture of where demand lies to enable the generation capacity available to be most efficiently distributed. They also allow more flexible TOU tariffs to be developed to smooth out the demand curve over the day.

Tokmon

A._Badger said:

Tokmon said:

But how is that a "fact" ? 
There is no evidence whatsoever that these features are planned to be used or that they are being installed mainly due to these reasons. He isn't simply stating facts by saying how these features work and how they could be used he is basically saying this is the the main reason they are being installed which is just his opinion and not based on any facts.

The ability to remotely switch off the supply to individual users is part of the meter's specification. Are you seriously trying to suggest that this provision would have been made unless it were going to be used? Do you believe it is unreasonable to explain that fact to people who may otherwise have heard nothing about them other than the largely mythical savings they may enable users to make? 

It is now well established that neither the National Grid nor the UK's power generating capacity have been expanded sufficiently to meet demand and will, by the government's own admission, even struggle to meet demand this coming winter. Only the most obtuse would try to claim that one of the main reasons these meters have been introduced is an attempt to mitigate those failings.    

So you honestly think the main reason that smarts meters were introduced is so they can regularly limit and turn off people's energy supply instead of improving the UK energy supplies?. 

It makes perfect sense to have these features in the meter just in case they are required in the future in last resort situations. The last thing the energy companies or the government want to do is cut people of or limit their energy supply. You and Gerry seem to think their is some big conspiracy to cut off people and limit their usage and that was the whole idea of smart meters but that doesn't make sense. 

If this was really the case they never would have made them optional and they would have made them mandatory for everyone to have. 

Plus lots of systems have emergency features that are present but designed to never be used. 

It's like saying "Do you seriously think car manufacturers would include airbags in cars unless they were going to be used?" 

sevenhills

Tokmon said:

 

So you honestly think the main reason that smarts meters were introduced is so they can regularly limit and turn off people's energy supply instead of improving the UK energy supplies?.

Users that are at risk of defaulting on their energy payment are given token meters which are expensive and costly to operate.

Surely better to have technology that can switch off supply? Cars are even sold under credit term which are advertised as the credit company able to immobilise the car if payment stop.

Many people seem to be anti-technology, its progress.

[Deleted User]

A._Badger said:

niktheguru said:

Verdigris said:

You can rely on Gerry to find the negative in absolutely everything. It's what keeps him going!

Gerry certainly does love a bit of scaremongering, particularly when smart meters are mentioned. Does he seriously believe that if there is a need for a blackout it will be aimed solely at smart meter users!

it’s also funny how the “green energy brigade” have kept eerily quiet during this period where we are lacking energy due to decreased “wind”. Though I suppose you can argue that if the government put more investment in renewable energy (or kept better non renewable provisions/backups) we perhaps wouldn’t be in this mess.

More than a little unfair to Gerry. What he does is spell out the facts. If they are uncomfortable it's as well to remember that it's always unwise to shoot the messenger. As for smart meters, the point is that they are designed to allow power rationing and differential charging.  If you think that is a 'Good Thing' why pretend that it's 'scaremongering'? If you don't, then at least you have been warned.

The meters are indeed designed with Demand Side Response in mind. In a number of countries, cheaper tariffs are offered which restrict demand at peak times. The consumer enters into a contract which restricts the instantaneous power that a user can draw at peak times. If the power limit is exceeded, then the consumer gets a number of warnings via the IHD; by text; email etc. If these warnings are ignored, then the supply is disconnected. Consumers have access to a dedicated phone number to get the power restored. Frequent breaches of the conditions attached to the tariff will be deemed a default, and the consumer will be placed on a more expensive tariff with a higher power limit.

These would be deemed disconnections by MUTUAL consent.