Energy Blackouts more likely!

grandadgolfer

How on earth will today's generation cope......no internet/tv/gadgets etc

2Protons

sevenhills said:

How would power blackouts work, would they be by country, county or local authority area?

Neither of those (although in practice the grid local distribution grid may follow some of these boundaries and Scotland has limited ability to import power so it a little more complex) basically in Great Britain (Northern Ireland has it own electricity system but probably something similar in place) "Each distribution network is divided into 18 x 5% load blocks (so the power cuts will be distributed across Great Britain), with a suffix letter (A, B, C, D, etc) attributed to each (which you should find on your electrcity bill - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6190028/rota-disconnection-code.) All connected customers are assigned a block letter corresponding to the relevant point of connection on the network. A block letter of V indicates that the site is on the Protected Sites List, or is protected from rota disconnection due to associated load." - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/995049/esec-guidance.pdf

- so if they know in advance there will be a shortfalls of either generating capacity (particularly between 3 & 7 pm) or shortful of fuel (like in the 1970s and possibly this winter if natural gas has to be rationed) a rota will be published of which load blocks will be disconnected (or might be if this isn't enough) e.g from 1972 in a local newspaper
https://www.hhtandn.org/relatedimages/11496/load-shedding-rota2 for how long and between which times. Then the voltage for load blocks with electricity will likely be reduced too.
 

wittynamegoeshere

My plan...

1. Switch off the isolator switch that I've had installed, cutting off the consumer unit from the grid completely
   
2. Plug petrol generator into the outside socket and start it up
3. Put lights and telly on, relax
4. Switch on 1kw heater
   
5. Cautiously make dinner, perhaps using one cooker ring at a time with the heater off
6. Make a cuppa using the cooker ring
   
7. Keep an eye out for the neighbours' houses lighting up, or we wouldn't have a clue the power was back on
   

2Protons

wittynamegoeshere said:

My plan...

1. Switch off the isolator switch that I've had installed, cutting off the consumer unit from the grid completely
   
2. Plug petrol generator into the outside socket and start it up
3. Put lights and telly on, relax
4. Switch on 1kw heater
   
5. Cautiously make dinner, perhaps using one cooker ring at a time with the heater off
6. Make a cuppa using the cooker ring
   
7. Keep an eye out for the neighbours' houses lighting up, or we wouldn't have a clue the power was back on
   

Just out of curiosity how big is your generator and why are you planning to use a petrol generator for electrical heater purposes instead of running the gas/oil central heating & using a gas hob or the camping stove with the current cost of petrol 140p a litre for regular unleaded & a petrol generator probably needs E5 so now super unleaded.

sevenhills

2Protons said:

Just out of curiosity how big is your generator and why are you planning to use a petrol generator for electrical heater purposes instead of running the gas/oil central heating & using a gas hob or the camping stove with the current cost of petrol 140p a litre for regular unleaded & a petrol generator probably needs E5 so now super unleaded.

I know my gas central heating will not work without power, for the thermostat, auto-ignite and digital controls.

wittynamegoeshere

2Protons said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

My plan...

1. Switch off the isolator switch that I've had installed, cutting off the consumer unit from the grid completely
   
2. Plug petrol generator into the outside socket and start it up
3. Put lights and telly on, relax
4. Switch on 1kw heater
   
5. Cautiously make dinner, perhaps using one cooker ring at a time with the heater off
6. Make a cuppa using the cooker ring
   
7. Keep an eye out for the neighbours' houses lighting up, or we wouldn't have a clue the power was back on
   

Just out of curiosity how big is your generator and why are you planning to use a petrol generator for electrical heater purposes instead of running the gas/oil central heating & using a gas hob or the camping stove with the current cost of petrol 140p a litre for regular unleaded & a petrol generator probably needs E5 so now super unleaded.

Stating what I thought would be obvious, I definitely don't want the fire risk and toxic fumes from burning fuels in my living room.

There's no mains gas here, we don't all live in suburbia.

I'm completely happy to be inefficient just for the duration of a power cut if it avoids carbon monoxide poisoning and/or burning the house down.

1800W for £200 here, among lots of other examples...

https://www.screwfix.com/p/impax-im1800ifg-1800w-inverter-frame-generator-240v/843hp

Not waterproof so needs to be under cover, others are available.

E10 shouldn't be a problem with any modern one, check before buying.

2Protons

sevenhills said:

2Protons said:

Just out of curiosity how big is your generator and why are you planning to use a petrol generator for electrical heater purposes instead of running the gas/oil central heating & using a gas hob or the camping stove with the current cost of petrol 140p a litre for regular unleaded & a petrol generator probably needs E5 so now super unleaded.

I know my gas central heating will not work without power, for the thermostat, auto-ignite and digital controls.

My suggestion was to use a generator to generate electricity to run the central heating boiler

wittynamegoeshere said:

2Protons said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

My plan...

1. Switch off the isolator switch that I've had installed, cutting off the consumer unit from the grid completely
   
2. Plug petrol generator into the outside socket and start it up
3. Put lights and telly on, relax
4. Switch on 1kw heater
   
5. Cautiously make dinner, perhaps using one cooker ring at a time with the heater off
6. Make a cuppa using the cooker ring
   
7. Keep an eye out for the neighbours' houses lighting up, or we wouldn't have a clue the power was back on
   

Just out of curiosity how big is your generator and why are you planning to use a petrol generator for electrical heater purposes instead of running the gas/oil central heating & using a gas hob or the camping stove with the current cost of petrol 140p a litre for regular unleaded & a petrol generator probably needs E5 so now super unleaded.

Stating what I thought would be obvious, I definitely don't want the fire risk and toxic fumes from burning fuels in my living room.

There's no mains gas here, we don't all live in suburbia.

I'm completely happy to be inefficient just for the duration of a power cut if it avoids carbon monoxide poisoning and/or burning the house down.

1800W for £200 here, among lots of other examples...

https://www.screwfix.com/p/impax-im1800ifg-1800w-inverter-frame-generator-240v/843hp

Not waterproof so needs to be under cover, others are available.

E10 shouldn't be a problem with any modern one, check before buying.

How do you heat your home just out curiosity as I had main gas when I lived in Cornwall of all place and the houses that didn't tended to have oil central heating and sometimes LPG too for a gas cooker?

It wasn't just the current cost of running a petrol generator it storing the petrol as it goes off and E10 has a shorter life + (as you also) mention carbon monoxide & unburnt fuel/ hydrocarbons (which is flammable) due to the lack of modern emissions controls and noise I want to leave the generator on for as short a time as possible  - my generator is to run the fridge freezer, chest freezer and central heating pump - https://www.aldi.co.uk/scheppach-1,76hp-inverter-generator/p/806491470899400 and at £75 it's a bargain vs my home insurance excess but hopefully I won't need  as the rota disconnection plan is only 3 hours off should it come to that this winter.

QrizB

2Protons said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

My plan...

1. Switch off the isolator switch that I've had installed, cutting off the consumer unit from the grid completely
   
2. Plug petrol generator into the outside socket and start it up
3. Put lights and telly on, relax

Just out of curiosity how big is your generator and why are you planning to use a petrol generator for electrical heater purposes instead of running the gas/oil central heating & using a gas hob or the camping stove with the current cost of petrol 140p a litre for regular unleaded & a petrol generator probably needs E5 so now super unleaded.

Wittyname has electric storage heaters, as you will know if you've paid attention to their other posts.

140p for a litre of unleaded (which works out as about 60p/kWh) is cheaper than gas for a camping stove (this is around £1/kWh).

Honda GX engines (used in all the better generators, concrete mixers, whacker plates etc.) have been compatible with E10 fuel since 1993. If you buy a cheaper generator with a non-Honda engine, well even then it will have at least 1000 hours use in it. (I know a guy who runs a sandwich van and he buys a new cheap generator every year.)

wittynamegoeshere

I don't have storage heaters, I have electric radiators.  Sadly the previous owner had the pipework for the radiators ripped out and all replaced by stupid wall-mounted radiators.  These in fact...

https://radiwarm.com/

I can't emphasise enough just how terrible they are.  For starters they're almost all mounted on external walls so half the heat goes through the wall.  Also unlike an oil filled radiator they have a pump in so hum, buzz and vibrate.  The end panels are metal clipped onto metal so jangle about like loose change.  They're all at different stages of expiry but are all noisy.  None of the parts are replaceable.

I've no doubt they were sold with all kinds of ridiculous claims, just as on their website.  They're basically a big clunky noisy British equivalent of Fischer - similar overpriced nonsense but not even nice looking, at least the Fischer ones look a little bit posh.

So we're starting from scratch, and a heat pump is 95% likely to be the answer, depending mainly on price and subsidy.

I'm only considering the generator idea, but it seems like a sensible insurance policy.  We have a petrol car, so we could get a jerry can, and every time the car gets near to empty chuck it in the boot, pour it into the car before filling up then refill the jerry can from the pump.  So the can gets constantly refreshed, and the stale old stuff gets mixed with lots of new stuff in the car.

I've been told that the strategy of disconnecting from the grid and reverse-feeding the power into a socket works, by someone who's done it.  You'd need a lead with a plug on each end, which would be a potential death-trap.  With either end plugged in, the exposed pins at the other end could become live so extreme discipline would be needed.  You could put an inline switch in it, ensure it's off, connect both ends then switch on.

Ectophile

MWT said:

Ectophile said:

Verdigris said:

MWT said:

For the rest, modern solutions for modern problems, not something for everyone I freely admit, but Solar PV and a big battery will go a long way to covering the cuts if they do not go on for too many hours/days.

That depends on the DNO allowing you to "island" your house, in a grid failure. At the moment the DNOs seem somewhat reluctant to allow islanding. I doubt this incompetent government will have given it any thought, so there will be not pressure for change.

Allowing? When I had a power cut this summer, I crawled into the meter cupboard and operated a big switch to disconnect my house from the mains, and switched to inverter only.

Not usual to find a properly installed and compliant grid-tied Solar PV installation that can run like that...

Which inverter do you have out of curiosity?

Not sure what model it is, but it's a Solax inverter. There's a separate power line from the inverter to the switch. The switch also has a signal line to the inverter to tell it you have switched to islanded mode.

Strangely, if the power comes back on while you're in islanded mode, the inverter will shut down until you switch back to mains again. I have no idea why it does that, but I can get around that by flipping the breaker that feeds the inverter, so it doesn't see the power coming back on.

I did that last power cut so I could carry on working til lunchtime, when I could switch the computers off, and go back to mains at a time to suit me.