Heat Pump Questions

[Deleted User]

Forgetting about whether the amount of funding available next April is enough,  I've a few questions that perhaps those experienced can answer.

(1)  I know that I could replace my current Gas Combi probably for about £2000-£2500 all in with an in-situ replacement, with no alteration to the pipework or rads etc.  Does the figure of say £10k (without the April subsidy) for say an ASHP installation seem correct?  I live in a 2 bed bungalow which has cavity wall and loft insulation, has UPVC double glazing and the EPC rating (FWIW) has it at the D band (68) energy efficiency rating.  I don't need to change my boiler yet although that day will no doubt come sooner than I want it to and I don't want a survey yet.

(2)  All of the piping to my rads is small bore about 10mm ( certainly smaller than in my last house).  Is it the case that most ASHP installations to older properties (such as mine built in 1990) would require new piping throughout the house?  And new rads/TRVs?  It looks like a new hot water tank also needed.  Does the ballpark cost generally include all these additional components of the heating system? 


(3)  Re cost of running a heat pump system,  am I correct in thinking that with say a COP of 3, the cost saving only becomes relevant when the cost of electricity is  3X or lower than that of gas, for heat pump systems to provide a like for like (or better) kWh output of heat for the same cost (assuming 100% efficiency in either system) or is this too simplistic a view of it all?

(4)  Does the requirement for a more or less instant domestic hot water supply (provided by a combi) skew the £££ towards one system.     

Reed_Richards

That's a lot of questions!

The answers to (2) are:
Small bore pipes would need to be replaced
Radiators would most likely need to be replaced
You would need a new hot water cylinder
The ball park costs being quoted in today's news articles seem too optimistic so I guess these additions are not being included

(3)  Your understanding is correct

(4)  Either way you will get more or less instant hot water.  Combis are touted as cheaper to run than a system with a hot water cylinder but in reality it will depend on pipe runs, whether heat lost from the cylinder is still useful etc.

gefnew

Get your heat pump quick? - Page 2 — MoneySavingExpert Forum.
Some thoughts here.

[Deleted User]

Reed_Richards said:

That's a lot of questions!

The answers to (2) are:
Small bore pipes would need to be replaced
Radiators would most likely need to be replaced
You would need a new hot water cylinder
The ball park costs being quoted in today's news articles seem too optimistic so I guess these additions are not being included

I wondered if this was the case as I genuinely don't know and won't know for sure for a few years down the road.  An inflation of the cost of replacing a gas boiler even before say 2025 and an under-estimation of the costs to go greener via a heat pump especially if the home needs better insulation, new piping etc.  

[Deleted User]

gefnew said:

Get your heat pump quick? - Page 2 — MoneySavingExpert Forum.
Some thoughts here.

Thanks for that link - did not find it earlier hence my question in this forum

Brie

I was wondering about this when the item was being discussed on the news as we are already in need of a new boiler.  Not desperately but enough so that next April seemed a good time to plan for it.  But then all of the questions you have asked are enough to put us off the idea - despite wanting to be greener.  

Also it was mentioned that as with so many things the technology and pricing is bound to change over the next couple of years so waiting appears to be a good idea.  There's also the issue of not having enough people available to do the installations - chap being interviewed who is a green energy expert (I believe) mentioned having to wait weeks between each stage of the work.

Net result is that we will be getting another gas fueled combi which should last until the government pays us to replace the entire system.  Or global warming means gas heating is no longer required.

brewerdave

Brie said:

I was wondering about this when the item was being discussed on the news as we are already in need of a new boiler.  Not desperately but enough so that next April seemed a good time to plan for it.  But then all of the questions you have asked are enough to put us off the idea - despite wanting to be greener.  

Also it was mentioned that as with so many things the technology and pricing is bound to change over the next couple of years so waiting appears to be a good idea.  There's also the issue of not having enough people available to do the installations - chap being interviewed who is a green energy expert (I believe) mentioned having to wait weeks between each stage of the work.

Net result is that we will be getting another gas fueled combi which should last until the government pays us to replace the entire system.  Or global warming means gas heating is no longer required.

I have this horrible thought of all these partly trained/untrained people setting up companies to take advantage of this latest Govt. wheeze and making a complete pigs ear of installations. Also once a few orders are placed, there will be huge delays because the equipment won't be available from the manufacturers.
 I read up on ASHP installs (a little bit) a few months ago and my fag packet calculations suggested a cost of ~ £20k for my house including bells and whistles and refurb costs. I'll be sticking with my gas system as long as I can !!!

Robbo66

Heat pumps cannot be retro fitted to existing heating systems without a substantial amount being spent on upgrades also houses that do have them are designed and built with with that type of system in mind.

I know someone that rented a house with a heat pump and after about 18 months the Landlord had it changed to oil heating as the heat pump cost a fortune to run and didn't heat the house.

Reed_Richards

Robbo66 said:

I know someone that rented a house with a heat pump and after about 18 months the Landlord had it changed to oil heating as the heat pump cost a fortune to run and didn't heat the house.

We've all heard stories like that.  If you don't install the right radiators for a lower water temperature then the heat pump won't provide water that is hot enough to adequately heat the house.  But constantly running it at its maximum output in order to try will make it cost a fortune to run.   

Sterlingtimes

What would be required to replace the microbore piping in the house? Would this involve the large scale removal of laminate, carpet and floorboarding carpet, the cutting of new slots in the walls and floors and the complete redecoration of the house?

Swipe

Complete madness. Stick with your gas boiler until it breaks.