Get your heat pump quick?

Reed_Richards

The Renewable Heat Incentive scheme is set to close on 31st March 2022 to be replaced by a £5,000 grant towards the cost of an Air Source Heat Pump https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58959045 .  Although the RHI scheme only pays you once a quarter over 7 years, you are likely to get a lot more in total than £5,000.  It seems likely there will now be a big rush to install heat pumps before the cut-off deadline.

Business and Energy Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng said the grants to support the adoption of heat pumps, available from next April, would play a role in that, by helping to bring down the cost of the relatively new technology by 2030.
Currently an air source heat pump costs between £6,000 and £18,000, depending on the type installed and the size of a property.
"As the technology improves and costs plummet over the next decade, we expect low-carbon heating systems will become the obvious, affordable choice for consumers," Mr Kwarteng said.
"Through our new grant scheme, we will ensure people are able to choose a more efficient alternative in the meantime."

Verdigris

It seems likely there will now be a big rush to install heat pumps before the cut-off deadline.

Don't I know it! I've already scaled down from GSHP to ASHP, for the house that I am interminably slowly buying, to try to meet the RHI deadline. I'm wondering what will happen if you miss the RHI deadline but have already paid for the heat pump; will you automatically qualify for the £5k if you can't get commissioned by 31/3/22?

Verdigris

Are there the same requirements to meet a reasonable SCOP under this new scheme or is it a charter for direct-selling scam-mongers?

arty688

I would like someone to explain how prices of putting in a water tank, changing the radiators and possibly pipes are going to plummet ? Smoke and mirrors for COP that's all this is.

Verdigris

Yes. I'm very cynical about this.

Also, are DNOs going to told to pull their finger out with regard to uprating main fuses, issuing G99 connections, etc?

QrizB

There are some oddities with the current market for central heating systems.

• A complete new gas-fired CH system (boiler, rads, tank & pipes), fitted, can be had for £4k. The parts are about £2k of that.
• A monobloc ASHP from a major manufacturer can be had for £3k.

If you put those two points together, you might reasonably expect that the cost for a ASHP-fired CH system should be £7k or less (since you save having to buy a gas boiler). So why doesn't this seem to be the case? I can think of a few possibilities:

• MSE forum members discussing heat pumps might have bigger or less-well-insulated homes than the average. You do see posters talking about listed buildings, barn conversions or high Victorian ceilings, none of which are typical of most of the UK housing stock.
• Retrofit ASHP CH could be more expensive than an equivalent new system. This seems counter-intuitive but there could, I guess, be decommissioning costs to deal with.
• The ASHP CH market could be supply-constrained, either due to a shortage of equipment (ASHPs themselves and their ancillary equipment) or of fitters (much like GCH needing Gas Safe, many ASHPs need F-Gas fitters).
• The current RHI scheme might add costs to the installation (you need a certified installer and a stack of paperwork)
• The RHI scheme might directly lead to inflated quotes from installers. Eg. if the installer tells you the ASHP system is £10k but you'll get £7k back, vs. GCH for £4k, you might choose to pay the £10k even if the system would otherwise cost £7k. (This is the same sort of situation you get with motor vehicle repairs where you'll sometimes be offered one price if your insurer is paying, and a lower price for cash.)
  

arty688

I have an ASHP which was installed when I built my house and the additional costs were about what you say there are additional cost such as larger radiators and more UFH pipe for low temperature water but not massive. Also you tend to go for a smart/ integrated tank with adds to the cost.

The main problem with retro fit is most people have a gas combi bolier so its not a like for like swop so the cost difference between swopping a combi and installing an ASHP is huge especially if you have small rads and micro bore. Apart from the fact they will have to have a huge tank in the house somewhere.

TELLIT01

They were talking to a guy from Friends of the Earth on BBC this morning.  He's the only person I have ever heard claim that they are just as effective as gas boilers.  Every other report I've seen says they don't get water as hot.  He did concede that he isn't saving any money because, being electric powered, they are more expensive to run than a gas boiler.  On that basis there is a considerable additional cost with no saving over time to offset it.

Reed_Richards

QrizB said:

There are some oddities with the current market for central heating systems. .... you might reasonably expect that the cost for a ASHP-fired CH system should be £7k or less (since you save having to buy a gas boiler). So why doesn't this seem to be the case? 

See here to browse the prices for an ASHP plus hot water cylinder: https://www.screwfix.com/c/heating-plumbing/heat-pumps/cat14210001#category=cat14210002 .  Add to this the cost of the radiators (which will be more than for gas central heating because a higher output is required) and pipes and I think you will see that your £7k figure might get you a small heat pump and a small cylinder plus other parts but is not enough for a 3 or 4 bedroom house.  

Verdigris

What if the government put the "green taxes" on gas, rather than electricity? That will change the equation.

Every other report I've seen says they don't get water as hot.

The flow temperatures are supposed to be lower to get the maximum COP, that why you need larger radiators or underfloor heating.

arty688

Here's someone else then , They can be just as effective as gas boilers it just the hearting system has to be designed for the temperature of the water.
What will happen is gas will get more expensive compare to electric.
The only real practical solution is ASHP for all new builds and cheap electricity so you can replace combi boliers with high temp electric ones.